Good Elk Load

kbf1961 said:

sabotloader said:

I believe the only option Knight offers now day is the Universal plunger. You might find on older style plunger on ebay or other auction sites... or have the cone removed by a machinist.

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I have a friend that has a mill. I brought it over there today and had it milled down... How do I post a picture?

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Here is your pic of the milled plunger

sabotloader said:

kbf1961 said:

sabotloader said:

I believe the only option Knight offers now day is the Universal plunger. You might find on older style plunger on ebay or other auction sites... or have the cone removed by a machinist.

Click to expand...

I have a friend that has a mill. I brought it over there today and had it milled down... How do I post a picture?

Click to expand...

Here is your pic of the milled plunger

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Thank you

Looks good!

I removed all of my "Cone" but did not really need too. I got a little carried away. :lol:

Great thread. I had the same "nipple cone" on the end of my plunger. I put in a new nipple when I got my MK-85. Shot 6 times, then it wouldn't shoot anymore! After speaking with Sabot, we decided the cone had probably peened out the nipple. Took it into the machine shop, had it milled, have a new nipple coming (2 actually) and should be able to get out to fire the rifle next weekend. Phew, hopefully that solves my problems so I can start shooting and gaining confidence before the season!

clarktar said:

Great thread. I had the same "nipple cone" on the end of my plunger. I put in a new nipple when I got my MK-85. Shot 6 times, then it wouldn't shoot anymore! After speaking with Sabot, we decided the cone had probably peened out the nipple. Took it into the machine shop, had it milled, have a new nipple coming (2 actually) and should be able to get out to fire the rifle next weekend. Phew, hopefully that solves my problems so I can start shooting and gaining confidence before the season!

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The Hammer in my post is from an MK-85 .54 cal. That cone is a little different than the one in the newer Knight like the OP had but you get the same results. Yes it will ruin nipples pretty quickly. If you happen to dry fire it one time the nipple is pretty much ruined or at least needs to be dressed with a file to get a cap on it. I tried a few types of nipples before I decided to remove that cone. It is not really hard to get rid off, I used an end mill cutter in my small drill press but if careful you could do it with a Dremel tool. With it gone I never had to replace the nipple after many shots, You should be good to go now! :yeah:

sabotloader said:

kbf1961 said:

CoHiCntry said:

What state are you elk hunting in? That will help to narrow down a load knowing what you can and can not use. I agree Powerbelts probably aren't the best bullet...that being said I've killed elk with them and two of the biggest bulls I've had the privilege to be on the hunt for fell to a Powerbelt. Both bulls were over 350". So they will do the job if your gun loves them & you can't find another bullet it likes.

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Washington... Open ignition

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Were I you... I would suggest you consider a Lehigh .458x305 grain bullet, either a MMP 458x50 Orange sabot or a MMP HPH-24 sabot, they fit my Knights better since the .458 is a true 45-70 rifle bullet, with 110 grains of T7-3f since you have to use caps. I would also suggest the RWS Dynamit Nobel 1075+ cap or the CCI #11 Mag cap. Then if you get a good nipple that the cap fits tight on it will also make it water proof. The Knight nipple is to skinny and the cap can often fall off.

These bullets offer great Terminal Ballistics.



The AMCO Nipple is no longer available from Track of the Wolf but they now offer a stainless steel version that uses the same nipple stack measurements. The are very good nipples for plunger gun.

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So I got back out to the range after the plunger work. The milled plunger worked great. Absolutely no damage worked great.
I went with your recommended load again 110grns T7 and the .458x305 Lehigh and first couple shots were 2'group at 100yds.
The rest were all over the board?? Some were not even on paper.. It was like shooting with an over heated barrel.. I was swabbing in between shots with saturated patches of 50/50 washer fluid /70% isopropyl alcohol... I am going back out to the range tomorrow and am not very optimistic. totally confused as to what happened.. How can the first couple shots be a 2" bullseye and the rest all over the board?

kbf1961 said:

sabotloader said:

kbf1961 said:

Washington... Open ignition

So I got back out to the range after the plunger work. The milled plunger worked great. Absolutely no damage worked great.
I went with your recommended load again 110grns T7 and the .458x305 Lehigh and first couple shots were 2'group at 100yds.
The rest were all over the board?? Some were not even on paper.. It was like shooting with an over heated barrel.. I was swabbing in between shots with saturated patches of 50/50 washer fluid /70% isopropyl alcohol... I am going back out to the range tomorrow and am not very optimistic. totally confused as to what happened.. How can the first couple shots be a 2" bullseye and the rest all over the board?

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I do not know this for sure without loading them myself... but I would guess you were using the Orange 458 sabots. Because the Lehigh's are a rifle bullet they are a smaller diameter than the normal ML bullet. I had basically the same problem with my Knights until I switched to the tighter black HPH-24 sabot.

There is a real possibility that the bullet was slipping in the sabot and not get the rotation it needs to stabilize, especially after the barrel warms a bit. The HPH-24 a 50 cal. sabot is a little thicker and will get a tighter grip on the bullet and the bore of the rifle. In fact in my Mountaineer I need to use a HPH-12 to bet the needed grip with that bullet.

Another suggestion _ just use plain old Blue Windex on the wiping patch. Although I doubt that your solution is any problem at all. I really think it might be grip - probably sabot to bullet and even sabot to bore. You are creating one heck of a torque on the load when that load goes boom and the 305 grains of brass would much rather stay with 0 rotations...

try it and see what you think

Yes orange 458 sabots. I looked at a few of the and they seemed to be engaged in the rifling. I will try some of the thicker sabots

I thought the ammonia in the windex was a problem?

kbf1961 said:

I thought the ammonia in the windex was a problem?

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It will evaporate pretty quick. The patch should just be slightly damp not wet. I use the same Windex myself and don't get that. You can get Plain Windex and even one with Vinegar instead of with ammonia if you want.

What Sabotloader was talking about was the bullet slipping inside the sabot (Not holding the bullet tight) not the sabot slipping on the rifling. How did the bullet/sabots load firm, loose.....

You could try knurling the bullet some to get a better grip and see if that makes a difference.

ShawnT said:

kbf1961 said:

I thought the ammonia in the windex was a problem?

Click to expand...

It will evaporate pretty quick. The patch should just be slightly damp not wet. I use the same Windex myself and don't get that. You can get Plain Windex and even one with Vinegar instead of with ammonia if you want.

What Sabotloader was talking about was the bullet slipping inside the sabot (Not holding the bullet tight) not the sabot slipping on the rifling. How did the bullet/sabots load firm, loose.....

You could try knurling the bullet some to get a better grip and see if that makes a difference.

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I got some of the other sabots today. ill try to get to the range tomorrow and let yall know

kbf1961 said:

ShawnT said:

kbf1961 said:

I thought the ammonia in the windex was a problem?

Click to expand...

It will evaporate pretty quick. The patch should just be slightly damp not wet. I use the same Windex myself and don't get that. You can get Plain Windex and even one with Vinegar instead of with ammonia if you want.

What Sabotloader was talking about was the bullet slipping inside the sabot (Not holding the bullet tight) not the sabot slipping on the rifling. How did the bullet/sabots load firm, loose.....

You could try knurling the bullet some to get a better grip and see if that makes a difference.

Click to expand...

I got some of the other sabots today. ill try to get to the range tomorrow and let yall know

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Hope they work for you... Did you get MMP or Harvester Black sabots

Ammonia is a excellent metal stripper and in the case of blue Windex the amount ammonia is minimal - just enough to do a great job cleaning and neutralizing the potassium and Sulphur in the powder residue.

Here is a quote from a well know barrel manufacturer.

Dan Lilja of Lilja Precision Rifle barrels has never seen any damage in one of his barrels caused by the use of ammonia. Dan writes: "The rumor is that copper-removing cleaners with ammonia will pit and damage the interior surface of a barrel. Ammonia is very effective as a copper remover. We use solvents, such as Butch's Bore Shine, to remove copper during the break-in. We routinely leave Butch's solution in the barrel over night too. Again, I repeat, we have never seen a problem with ammonia in the concentrations found in commercial cleaners, in either our chrome-moly or stainless steel barrels. This includes examination with our borescope."

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I went with MMP Black HPH 12 & MMP Black HPH 24's . Im hoping I can get those Lehigh .458x305s shooting with one of these tomorrow.

I ran into a similar problem with the Barnes 300gr SOCOM bullet. It has "bands" like the Lehigh kinda. They shot great in a really tight sabot made for .452 bullets.

If the MMPs are too tight, try the Harvester Black Crushribs. They will load slightly easier than the HPH-24 but will still be very tight.

Any updates if the new sabots helped out?