TC Black Diamond 209 breech plug

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

pjajcinovic

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Does anyone know if there is an after market 209 primer conversion for the TC Black Diamond. The one that comes with the gun allows an awful lot of blow back. I have to believe that is not good for accuracy.
 
The Black Diamond being the design it is, is messy. I have one. And for years I cursed the blow back when shooting a 209 ignition system. But since I shoot Goex, Pyrodex, or Triple Seven loose powder out of it, I changed back to a #11 percussion cap system. And I thank the forum members that suggested I try that. Even an old dog can learn new tricks. You can't believe how much cleaner the rifle is with this set up.

As for accuracy, the Black Diamond I have never let me down on the accuracy department. Even with the bad blow back.. it was deadly accurate.

With a simple 4x scope on it, I was shooting white paper plates at 150 yards with ease, once I learned the drop. Now I am not saying it was a 3 inch group at that distance. But I could keep them in the center area of the plate which means I could have shot a deer with ease at that distance.

But if you get a chance, try that #11 nipple. you might find a whole new respect for the rifle.
 
I think this will help you

Re: personal evolution as a muzzleloader

Postby Confederate rifleman » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:11 am
With the flame thrower nipples, regardless of type ( #11, musket or 209) they are absolutely filthy. 3 vents in the nipple allow a TON of crud to blow back ESPECIALLY with 209's. However, substitute a regular single port nipple, I like Ampcos, and they are no worse than any other plunger inline. To say its night and day is an understatement. I've never found cleaning my Black Diamond to be a chore. She's never stuck a plug( over 1300 rounds fired) and doesn't throw the first shot out of the group. She's a good girl and Death her bad self on critters...
The LORD bless and keep you.The LORD make his face to shine apon you and be gracious to you.The LORD look apon you with favor , and bring you peace.
 
That makes sense because you don't have those three large ports in the #11 cap nipple outside the breech plug. I was wondering if there was anything similar to the Knight bare 209 primer breech plug so that I could still us 209 primers. I would like to use the Blackhorn 209 poweder and I don't know if it would ignite reliably with #11 caps.
 
pjajcinovic said:
That makes sense because you don't have those three large ports in the #11 cap nipple outside the breech plug. I was wondering if there was anything similar to the Knight bare 209 primer breech plug so that I could still us 209 primers. I would like to use the Blackhorn 209 poweder and I don't know if it would ignite reliably with #11 caps.

A word of experience when shooting BlackHorn 209 out of a Black Diamond XR. When the powder first came out, I tested it in a number of different rifles. One such rifle was the Black Diamond XR. And I KNEW it was not recommended to shoot BH209 out of an open breech rifle. So no blame goes to the powder company. Long story short.. the powder blew a primer out of the breech plug back into my face. I ended up digging the center of a primer out of my forehead. Bled a lot but only made me smarter. The Black Diamond is not made to shoot BH209 IMO. So shooters be warned.

My Black Diamond XR really likes Pyrodex RS. Just great accuracy. And yes you have to clean the rifle after the range session. So what!
 
I have shot the Am. Pioneer but am not a big fan of it, I have tried almost all kinds of powders from Real Black Powder and the various substitutes , some I like better than others for various reasons, In the case of the rifle that you have and a reliable ignition and safety concerns I would stick with Cayuga's advise because of his first hand experience with an open breech gun and BH209. I would stick with #11 caps and either pyrodex or triple 7 . Shoot it, clean it and enjoy it. Just my 2 cents. Bh209 needs a really good sealed breech and a hot primer to work as intended. Always err on the side of safety.
 
Thanks for the input, I'm going to try 777 in this rifle. I Also have a Knight Long Range Hunter that I used BH209 in this past season and two miss fires that cost me opportunities on tow deer. I though that it was due to the temperatures being below zero, but I was advised in another forum that there is a new breech plug that is made to use this powder. I Might top using the powder but I get sum MOA groups out of my Knight with the BH209 ( When it goes off). I haven't tried the 777 in either of these guns yet. I'll have to see what kind of groups I can get.
 
Found this post on Google and I need your help. I have a Black Diamond that I bought in 2002 and its been in the box since. I'm going to get it ready this year and try it out. I find out how dirty the flamethrower system is and I want to get a replacement nipple to use with the #11 caps. I looked today and the ones they had were much shorter. Is that normal ? I'm a total beginner with these weapons. I'm a long time bow and rifle hunter so this is all foreign to me. Thanks....
 
pjajcinovic said:
How do you feel about American Pioneer out of the Black Diamond XR?


I have shot it. I also shot Pinnacle. Which is another sugar based powder. They shot well. I never had a moisture problem with it, but then I never hunted in the snow with it. On the range it shot well, and was easy to clean. Also the problem with APP is the 2f is like pouring fish tank gravel. Some of it is so thick it will not come through the funnel on your powder measure. If you want to shoot APP get the 3f. A much better choice. I was shooting 2f APP one afternoon and some 240 grain XTP's and the accuracy was exceptional.
 
cayuga said:
pjajcinovic said:
How do you feel about American Pioneer out of the Black Diamond XR?


I have shot it. I also shot Pinnacle. Which is another sugar based powder. They shot well. I never had a moisture problem with it, but then I never hunted in the snow with it. On the range it shot well, and was easy to clean. Also the problem with APP is the 2f is like pouring fish tank gravel. Some of it is so thick it will not come through the funnel on your powder measure. If you want to shoot APP get the 3f. A much better choice. I was shooting 2f APP one afternoon and some 240 grain XTP's and the accuracy was exceptional.

cayuga, this post is about 8 months old. You answered one of the old questions. I brought it back up to see if someone could answer a question related to this topic. Can you or anyone give me a helping hand?
 
I do not know of an after market 209 breech plug system. But I am sure someone could make one for you. I hate the 209 breech plug system that comes with the rifle. I hate to think how many 209 nipples I have blown apart.
 
cayuga said:
I do not know of an after market 209 breech plug system. But I am sure someone could make one for you. I hate the 209 breech plug system that comes with the rifle. I hate to think how many 209 nipples I have blown apart.

I wasn't wanting a 209. Some on this topic said they went with the single port percussion nipple and #11 caps. The flamethrower is long and has three ports. I looked at a single port in the store today but its much shorter than the flame thrower and I was wondering if that is what I need or do I need one longer like the flame thrower. Being new, I don't know if they come in different lengths or what. I just want to replace the factory flamethrower with a single port that will fit my TC Black Diamond XR.
 
I just pulled mine down and looked. I don't see ports on my #11 nipple. I think all I have in my rifle is a stainless steel hot shot nipple. It does not look any extra long like the old flame thrower ones you mentioned.
 
Any 1/4x28 nipple will work in you Diamond. I like Ampco's as they hold up quite well(400+ shots before replacement) and are very friendly on threads and striker faces being softer than steel. The only benefit to 209's is that they are more available than 11's or muskets lately. I have always found better accuracy with the least powerful ignition source.I believe that powerful igniters like 209s will get the load moving up bore before complete ignition occurs. This plays merry hob with load density, compression etc, which does zip for accuracy.I once expelled a 320gr lee REAL ( dry balled) with 3 musket caps. Popped a 209 with a patch on the jag to see what it would do and the rammer was 1/2 way out of the barrel. Seems a bit excessively powerful to me. I admit that for years now all I shoot is Swiss black, but I used to shoot T7 and never found 11's or muskets wanting in ability to fire the charge . An important advantage to caps over 209's in striker fired inlines is moisture proofing. If you look at the 209 module for your Diamond, or any other non-fpj holder, you will note that when the primer is fully inserted there is about 1/16 to 3/32 inch of space between the front of the primer and the face of the recess in the carrier. This space will allow moisture to get to your powder and will turn the fouling left from a shot into nasty goo. Imho there is nothing to be gained by using 209's in striker fired inlines.
 
I took my Black Diamond XR out to shoot today, since you got me all curious about it. It has the standard Black Diamond Breech plug and just a stainless steel hot shot nipple in it. The #11 nipple does not even have any ports to it.

17-DSCN0684_zps1162a606.jpg


I was shooting Winchester Magnum/CCI Magnum (same thing) #11 caps. I shot the rifle around fifteen rounds. Never one misfire. It blows the caps wide open and they just fall out of the breech when you tip the rifle to load it.

03-DSCN0650_zps6084c697.jpg


The breech area stays pretty clean. And I was shooting Schuetzen 2f Black Powder today.
 
Cayuga, Does your BD breechplug have a very narrow shoulder that bears on the barrel's internal shoulder? The one on mine is almost sharp and it does give me some concern that it will eventually damage that shoulder. I like the shelf like front shoulder of the Omega plugs. They are set up for pellets, so I'm told, which I dont use, but that shoulder is wide and gives excellent coverage to the bearing surfaces.Its too bad the primer pocket in the Omega plug is too large for a 1/4x28 tap to thread. I'd then shorten the plug and use it in the Diamond.The restricted aperture of the Omega plug would further restrict blowback and not negatively effect ignition. My daughter's Traditions Tracker came with the 209 plug and the primer holder broke so i filed it off and d&t'd it for 1/4x28 nipples.Minimal blowback and perfect ignition. I bored the nipple out for better flame travel and that plug has 1700 rounds through it with no significant enlargement of the aperture. I know I could put a vent liner into the current plug, but those threads are a pain to clean as it is. Why complicate things? I wish T/C hadn't threaded the plug all the way through!
Anybody know anyone who makes custom breechplugs?
 
Back
Top