Very first target

Very nice set up and shooting. Way to much $$$$ for me with having kids but each his own. Hope Obama doesnt get wind of this he might cut your S.S. checks :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Thanks guys! For the first session I'm pretty happy. There's a lot of work to do yet on my part, the fun part......... I primed 200 cases today, even though the skies are totally blue. Just to much wind to shoot here in NE MI today and in the wrong direction. 18mph sustained and 30mph gusts crossing my range.

Now I know why you couldn't wait, I say its a sweet looking piece. Congratulations!!

I've spent pretty much most of the week, calling and being called, learning a few new things. Just before answering this post, I finished a conversation with the lead lab tech at Western Powders. It appears that after I shoot the pellets I have left, I won't be buying any more.

With this Ultimate, I can get the velocity necessary to match my scope turret, actually more before it starts falling off. It appears I can get 2,400fps from the Ultimate, shooting a 300gr bullet. Barrel pressure should remain lower than the three T7 magnum pellets (180gr equivalent).

Busta said:

ENCORE50A said:

I've spent pretty much most of the week, calling and being called, learning a few new things. Just before answering this post, I finished a conversation with the lead lab tech at Western Powders. It appears that after I shoot the pellets I have left, I won't be buying any more.

With this Ultimate, I can get the velocity necessary to match my scope turret, actually more before it starts falling off. It appears I can get 2,400fps from the Ultimate, shooting a 300gr bullet. Barrel pressure should remain lower than the three T7 magnum pellets (180gr equivalent).

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What I already know and have done, is the rifle WILL shoot BH209. I've shot two rounds of 75grs (W), then shot two rounds of 100grs (W). Both fired immediately, just like it should. The question I started out with was, just how much? My intent was to determine what charge would be needed to send a 300gr bullet at 2,350fps and, would that load be safe? On the back of the manual I received, it originally had 150grs (V) of BH as a substitute load. However, that was marked off with a black marker and just the Hodgdon information was listed. That tells me that at one time or another, and for one reason or another, BH was something that they didn't want listed. I understand that they want to remain with what they developed and prefer shooters do the same. But, there are shooters who will test that.

I called Western on Monday, talked to a tech and he immediately told me that he wanted me to talk to someone in the lab. That call came this afternoon. I explained a number of questions that I had, with the main question of, how much BH will it take to get a 300gr bullet to 2,350fps? Then I could hear the computers fire up in the background...... The following was explained and I'm no expert and don't work in a lab so, I'll have to agree/go with the expert.

It appears that when BH was in the process of development, they compared/used the pressure created buy using 3 triple seven pellets... in their test rifle. I was told that the 3 pellets generated 30,000psi. They then determined a maximum allowable for BH, and settled on 25,000psi, which their published data represents in their load data. Then they started their testing and found that the pressure related to the charge, changed completely linear and that there were no spikes in pressure. They tested up to 160grs by weight of BH. He told me that even at 160grs weight of BH, that the pressures didn't exceed that of 3 T7 pellets (30,000psi). However, it was a business decision to remain with pressures never to exceed 25,000psi. Which their published data represents.

Another thing very interesting, was that velocity was also linear, also from their test barrel. They found that as the charge increased, the velocity remained linear with the increase in charge. We were speaking specifically charges by WEIGHT. He told me that they achieved 2,400fps, shooting a weighed charge of 112grs. Their testing showed that a weighed charge of 98grs, had a velocity of 2,260fps. Using the linear process, this would mean that a WEIGHED charge of approximately 105grs, would provide near 2,350fps. That same charge would equal 150grs volume, which is the blacked out data on the Ultimate manual.

Interestingly, it was explained that charges over 120grs WEIGHT, was about maximum for a complete burn in a 26" barrel. Anything over that amount and unburnt powder would be sent out the end of the barrel. In other words, it has its limits and that is the main one.

Can't weight to see your targets with BH209. If you don't mind me asking, what is the turn rate of your barrel? It has always been my understanding that 1:28 won't stabilize muzzleloader bullets over 2000 fps. I think I read where Ultimates have a Walther/Lothar barrel, which is the reason for their extreme accuracy. Just curious what turn rate they use.

daddy o said:

Can't weight to see your targets with BH209. If you don't mind me asking, what is the turn rate of your barrel? It has always been my understanding that 1:28 won't stabilize muzzleloader bullets over 2000 fps. I think I read where Ultimates have a Walther/Lothar barrel, which is the reason for their extreme accuracy. Just curious what turn rate they use.

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I believe its a right 1:26-6, 26" hand lapped Match barrel, X-Mark trigger which I may end up replacing with a Jewell down the road.

I am stongly considering a NULA in the coming weeks. The Ultimate is very enticing. I like seeing the smokeless velocities acheived using BP substitutes . If the two rifles were the same money it would be nearly impossible for me to choose! The NULA has the weight advantage and a better safety. The Ultimate uses magnum rifle primers which is better than 209s.

Until now I am exclusively a Knight shooter. One of their best features is the second safety. Encore50 I would suggest something for you to consider. Instead of installing a different trigger, think about having a Winchester style safety instead. The three position wing will actually mechanically block the firing pin. Remington safeties only direct block the trigger mechanism.

I also have one other suggestion: change your screen name to "Ultimate50"! I don't see your Encore getting much use in the future! :lol: