I wanna throw my encore away

Thanks for the input I am going to order the spring kits this weekend where is the best place to get the Barnes bullets inline ?

Midwayusa usually has Barnes & is easy to deal with.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1& ... hscope=all

Creekrunner said:

Thanks for the input I am going to order the spring kits this weekend where is the best place to get the Barnes bullets inline ?

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You won't like hearing this but, MidwayUSA had packs of 24 Barnes 250gr TMZ's on sale for $17.95 awhile back

I will offer some advice for your consideration. First a little back ground. I bought a first run Encore the year they came out for a woping $411.99 from Natchez SS. Since I bought mine I have fired over 1000 loads out of it using Pyrodex pellets, then another +/- 700 loads out of it using 3-F 777 then about 100 or do using BH209. I was plagued with inconsistantcy. One group would be MOA, the next 2.5-4" at 100 from the bench. I did the fallowing to get my Encore to get it to shoot 1.5-2" groups consistantly.

Had a trigger job done that reduced pull to 3lbs/ Free floated the barrel by eliminating any forearm wood/barrel contact/installed a Bellum T/C oversized hinge pin/ and last and in MY OPINION THE most important thing, once I reassembled my Encore I did not disassemble it untl hunting season was over. I could do this because I removed the primer removal thingy so I could easily remove the BP and clean it and the bore.

Now if after you try everything you still are not satisfied do what I just did. Find yourself a new never used or like new in box Knight Extreme or Elite muzzleloader. Most can be had for $300-$325 spend the extra $50 for a disk eliminating bolt conversion and then spend $25 for a BH209 compatable BP and never look back.

I got super lucky and bought a LNIB Knight stainless laminated .45 Extreme ML that already the new non disk bolt installed along with a BH209 compatable BP for $300 TMD. Once I got mine set up and sighted in at 50yrds my first 100yrd group was a zero BS 100% honest 1.25" 3-shot group. I then switched over to Hornady SST's and like everyone says they shoot excellent out of non-smokeless MLs. My first 3-shot 100yrd group was right at .7".

So if all else fails buy a older Knight. You can find them by searching the net and in the FS sections at ML forums like this one and Doug's, do the above mods I suggested, stick with BH209 and dont look back. In the end you will be money ahead. Once your happy, sell the Encore or if you have a use by a aftermarket barrel for it.
Art.

Dennis G said:

Here's a tip that hasn't been mentioned but it made all the difference for me. I have an old Omega .45 stainless that I just couldn't get to shoot accurate 100 yd. groups no matter what I tried. Then I read BUCKDOEHUNTER's thread ( viewtopic.php?f=13&t=25483 ) on knurling bullets. I shoot Hornady 200 gr. .400 XTP's in Harvester crushable sabots and knurl every bullet. They are tighter in the barrel now and I believe the bullet sticks to the sabot and spins better coming out of the muzzle. The gun groups very well now, and a gun I was going to give away is now my favorite. Hope it works for you as well as it did for me.

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TC have a larger bore than other MZ. Knurling or wrapping the bullet in aluminum foil may tighten up your groups.

Creekrunner beware! I had a Encore Endeavor that I spent a ton of money on. This rifle, no matter what I shot out of it, shot like crap! (4-5 in. grps @ 50 yrds) Long story short, bad QLA. This was my experience with TC.

Creek runner I forgot to add some info in my original posting. Before you spend any big money allow me to suggest this cheap potential cure. Buy some Hornady bullets in .458" diameter NOT the standard .45 cals like the .452" XTP. I have used both Hornady's standard .458/45-70 bullets in the 300 grain HP type as well as their 325 grain .458" FTX bullets and both shot well out of both my .50 cal ML's. I'm talking about bullets for use in a 45/70. Then buy some Harvester Black Crush Rib sabots. Then knurl the bullits by rolling them back and forth between two cross cut fat files.

I suggest using .458" diameter bullets as Encores bores tend to run on the large size, and the tighter fitting the sabot/bullet combo almost always will result in improved accuracy. I suggest knurling as knurling for lack of a better way to describe it, roughs up the bearing surface of the bullet accomplishing two things in the process.
#1-It forces the bullet to "grab on" to the sabot insuring the bullet rotates properly as it travels down the bore, bullets with in sabots in a loose bore can and do fail to spin while contained with in the sabot. Unfortunately unlike rifle bores, ML bores are not kept to any strict industry standardized ID.

#2-Knurling will increase the OD of the bullet helping to create a tighter fitting bullet/sabot combo, so you need to proceed slowly and knurl a little measure with a set of calipers.I would knurl one till it adds 1-3 thousands on the bullets OD then try to load it down your Encore, just remove your BP so it will come out the breach end. I would only increase the OD enough to get a good snug fit requiering around 35-40 pounds of pressure to load. How do I measer said pounds you ask? I use my bathroom scale.

Lastly as suggest already you must give BH209 a try. I will never again use anything else in my non-smokeless ML's as long as it's available. Its simply awesome.

I don't know if anyone has told you yet about one other issue with Encores that can have a potentially bad affect on your accuracy. Encores have the QLA feature and according to a expert on all ML's and Encores in particular, prbullet.com the QLA is often done so as to be off center to the bore, unfortunately I am unawear of any way to check for this problem. Lastly I strongly suggest to go to www.prbullet.com as there is a wealth of info their about Encores and inline ML's themselves.

Best of luck and keep an eye out for a good used Knight Elite or Extreme. I know I'm buying more for use by my sons. Anyone will be hard pressed to argue there is a better made more accurate inline than a Knight Elite or Extreme especially once they are converted as I have described.

Thanks again for all the advice guys shot the encore Saturday and was highly impressed with the bh209 just started at 100 grains with a 250 tmz and had a 1" group at 50 yards. Not bad seeing that in my rush and excitement to go shoot I forgot my sand bags o well I will be back at it one night this week going to work up a load for hunting season in October

Creekrunner said:

Thanks again for all the advice guys shot the encore Saturday and was highly impressed with the bh209 just started at 100 grains with a 250 tmz and had a 1" group at 50 yards. Not bad seeing that in my rush and excitement to go shoot I forgot my sand bags o well I will be back at it one night this week going to work up a load for hunting season in October

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:yeah: :yeah:

Well finally found some time to hit the range. Got my hands on some 250 gr tmz hornady sst 250 gr and some 300 gr leightfield boat tail all lead sabots. I tried the tmz first with a 100 gr of bh 209 shot a 3" group but they were a pain to load. So I switched to the sst and shot this group. I tried running a patch down the barrel and also shooting a dirty hole and poi never changed might not throw away this one after all

Well it won't let me upload the pictures the files are to large anyways the first group was 1.5" the second was .75" I can easily cover the group with a quarter. Best group I've ever shot out of a smoke pole I am very happy to say the least.

Creekrunner said:

Well it won't let me upload the pictures the files are to large anyways the first group was 1.5" the second was .75" I can easily cover the group with a quarter. Best group I've ever shot out of a smoke pole I am very happy to say the least.

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You will have to load your pictures to a Picture Hosting Site like 'Photo Bucket' and then from move the path to here.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11891

Top is the first 3 shot group bottom is a 3 shot group hard for me to believe but it is I even have a witness haha

Sounds and looks like I won't be mailed that rifle

If the TMZ is to hard to load, then the T-EZ would be the Barnes to go to. However by the looks of that group :yeah:

Thanks hard to believe that there are 2 groups there. 3 shots I'm hole at 100 yards is a great group in any gun.

Now you know why I LOOOOOOOOOVE, LOVE, LOVE, BH209 and Hornady SST's. Out of the Knight Extreme I described to you I can consistently shoot sub 1" 100 yard 3-shot groups, and I do mean consistently. Although your getting excellent groups, you might want to give knurling your SST's a try, as i already suggested. Knurling is simply rolling your ML bullet between two cross cut files to increase your bullets OD. It also insures your bullet will grip the sabot and spin, as some times a too loose a bullet sabot combo will allow the sabot to spin at a different rate then the bullet, or the bullet will not spin at all, at least that's what I've been told. I know since I went to a 100% knurl policy with all my ML bullets I now have VERY few fliers.

I'm glad it all worked out for you.

Nice shooting! :yeah:

I always knurl now too, only takes a few seconds and IMO does help to eliminate fliers and increase accuracy.

Thanks. Now that I know that I have a load that's shooting out of my gun I am now willing to play around a lot more and try different things to get even more accuracy.