How long is long

Since I'm somewhat new to this site, this question may have been discussed prior.
There was a great article in the Spring issue of the Black Powder Cartridge magazine. Talking about this issue for BPCR hunters as we've all seen the TV shows with 800+ yards kills with modern rifles. The article discusses this ethical issue for ALL hunters, not just BP.
So, "How Long is Long" with a MuzzleLoader? Let's expand that to Hunting.

That depends on the shooter the gun and the load. If the shooter practices enough and uses a heavy load and has an accurate gun then 200 yds. is no problem, With either of my inlines I can hit the 8 inch gong at 250 yds. but I limit my hunting shots to 200 as it is my 3" up and 3" down dead on. But then I am using 140 grains of Blackhorn 209 in my Endeavor wit a 250 grain Shock Wave and 120 grains in my Encore 45 with a 200 grain Shock Wave.

The shooter, rifle, optics, load, amount of practice, confidence and patience IMO all combined together, are the determining factors in how long is long that a shooter should take hunting shots. Just about any production rifle made today with good optics is capable of 200yd shots, of course with the right load. However the individual shooter may not be capable. Some shooters that may be target capable at 200yds or beyond, may not be 200yd game capable. The best explanation for that would be "buck fever" in a nut shell and/or lack of understanding environmental conditions etc.

IMO there are basically three different kinds of muzzleloader hunter/shooters. One... the extended season hunter. Two... the all season hunter. Three... the perfectionist (if there is such a thing) shooter/hunter. I believe there's a considerable difference between number one and number three, with number two swinging slightly either way. A long range shot for the extended season hunter may be 100yds. The all season shooter/hunter may be consistent at 200 to 250 yards. The perfectionist hunter, depending on their rifle, optics, environmental conditions and confidence, can be capable of considerably longer hunting shots. IMO much of "how long is long" depends on the shooter's equipment, his practice and his confidence level.

How long is long for me personally while hunting, well this year it will be 300yds with my custom rifle. Although the rifle is very capable of longer range shots and I've shot 400yds with great groups, my confident hunting level right now is a 300yd maximum under the correct conditions.

52Bore said:

... "How Long is Long" with a MuzzleLoader? Let's expand that to Hunting.

Click to expand...

It depends.. it depends.. the rifle, the bullet, the caliber, the powder, the trigger puller, the weather, etc.

Examples: Assuming a straight shooting rifle, and a trigger puller that has practiced..

iron sights, older trigger puller--75 yard

iron sights, younger trigger puller-- 150 yard

1X scope, old/young trigger puller--150 yard

4X scope, old/young puller, 50 caliber rifle, light breeze--250 yard

6X scope, old/young puller, 45 caliber rifle, very slight breeze, 350 yard

Good points all. A lot of factors to consider. I think confidence with a particular gun, load, bullet, and optic is the key. That confidence comes with time on the trigger in various conditions. I don't want to think I will make the shot, I want to know I will make the shot.

Most of my hunts are afternoon/evening hunts in a relatively low lying area where I know the wind will be going down at least the last hour or so. I spend a lot of time in the off season shooting in conditions Ron would call a light breeze. With my KP1, I know I will make a 250 shot in these conditions. Nothing magical about the gun, could be TC or CVA, just happens to be the gun I hunt with the most. To be honest, it took a couple years getting there. I'm a little slow on the uptake sometimes. Interestingly, I've never had a shot that was 200 when actually hunting, but I want to be ready just in case.

If i dont practice to within 25 yards of a potential shot, i wont take the shot. That puts my current max comfortable range at around 175 yards for a good field type rest and about 200 yards under ideal conditions. Im a heart breaker though and i normally avoid high shoulder/spine shots.

My gear is capable of much further.

So I've practiced a fair amount with my 45 cal Knight Disc Extreme at 200 yards with good accuracy.

I say im good to 200 in perfect conditions, however, the longest shot I've ever taken was 135. I always set up to hunt in creek bottoms where a buck fifty would be the longest.

I'm a firm believer in practicing for the shot you'd take n the field.

Glad to see that those who responded seem realistic. But, only 6 reply's with nearly 200 who read. Can't help but wonder about the other 97%?
You all are like me, the more you practice and understand your ballistics the better hunter you will become. For me, conditions make the errors in shooting an exponential curve and not linear. Have shot a lot of paper from 50- 500 and every year we shoot a match at 1000 with ML, but hunting is a different game for sure.
I'm fortunate enough to hunt over fields, but things look different than at a range and I've been 'inching' my way toward 300 over the past few years. So, far not a problem at all with ranging, doping, adjusting the scope and letting the rifle do the work. But, I probably range 10x assuring I know the distance.
Getting a ML to shoot 1MOA at 200 isn't easy and this certainly doesn't guarantee 1MOA at 500 (best this rifle/load can do is about 3-4 MOA at 500, 15 total shots/match), that exponential error factor comes into play...
My rifle is an older Knight 45, 1:20. 85gr Swiss 2F powder, card wad, shooting a pure lead grease groove bullet of 530gr. Same load at 1000, just with a different rifle. 1000 is just unbelievably difficult!!! I'm tickled to just see the NRA 6'x6' target frame lower after firing.
Good luck shooting.

52Bore said:

Glad to see that those who responded seem realistic. But, only 6 reply's with nearly 200 who read. Can't help but wonder about the other 97%?
You all are like me, the more you practice and understand your ballistics the better hunter you will become. For me, conditions make the errors in shooting an exponential curve and not linear. Have shot a lot of paper from 50- 500 and every year we shoot a match at 1000 with ML, but hunting is a different game for sure.
I'm fortunate enough to hunt over fields, but things look different than at a range and I've been 'inching' my way toward 300 over the past few years. So, far not a problem at all with ranging, doping, adjusting the scope and letting the rifle do the work. But, I probably range 10x assuring I know the distance.
Getting a ML to shoot 1MOA at 200 isn't easy and this certainly doesn't guarantee 1MOA at 500 (best this rifle/load can do is about 3-4 MOA at 500, 15 total shots/match), that exponential error factor comes into play...
My rifle is an older Knight 45, 1:20. 85gr Swiss 2F powder, card wad, shooting a pure lead grease groove bullet of 530gr. Same load at 1000, just with a different rifle. 1000 is just unbelievably difficult!!! I'm tickled to just see the NRA 6'x6' target frame lower after firing.
Good luck shooting.

Click to expand...

You have to remember there are lots of "Lurkers" that just read the posts and may not be members of the board.

52Bore said:

Glad to see that those who responded seem realistic. But, only 6 reply's with nearly 200 who read. Can't help but wonder about the other 97%?
You all are like me, the more you practice and understand your ballistics the better hunter you will become. For me, conditions make the errors in shooting an exponential curve and not linear. Have shot a lot of paper from 50- 500 and every year we shoot a match at 1000 with ML, but hunting is a different game for sure.
I'm fortunate enough to hunt over fields, but things look different than at a range and I've been 'inching' my way toward 300 over the past few years. So, far not a problem at all with ranging, doping, adjusting the scope and letting the rifle do the work. But, I probably range 10x assuring I know the distance.
Getting a ML to shoot 1MOA at 200 isn't easy and this certainly doesn't guarantee 1MOA at 500 (best this rifle/load can do is about 3-4 MOA at 500, 15 total shots/match), that exponential error factor comes into play...
My rifle is an older Knight 45, 1:20. 85gr Swiss 2F powder, card wad, shooting a pure lead grease groove bullet of 530gr. Same load at 1000, just with a different rifle. 1000 is just unbelievably difficult!!! I'm tickled to just see the NRA 6'x6' target frame lower after firing.
Good luck shooting.

Click to expand...

To reply to your question how long is long... personally, I think anything over 200 with a ML would be considered long. Most modern guns are capable of shooting 150-200 with very good accuracy, but beyond really beyond that the drop is very drastic and takes a good setup, and lots of practice to make the shots count. Personally, I haven't shot my guns at even 200.... but I know they are capable. Obviously real long range shooting can be done, it just takes some tinkering and practice... though for hunting situations, I'd say 90% of people would max out at 150-200yds.

I've been building a lot of confidence in the Ultimate but, there's a lot to shooting really long range as I've found out. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot 200 to 250yds in most (not all) conditions. Beyond that, there's a lot to learn yet.

There is one other thing to consider, where I live in AR any shot over 50 yards is rare, I practice out to 250 and hunt on my own property mostly. I used to live in northern IL and we had open corn fields there and that brought on some long shots. Now the only possibility for such shots is when I go to WY. where dads cousin has a ranch. People tend to fit their skills to what they need.

Oh no doubt. 90% of my shots are under 75yds.... but I know I could make a 150 if I had to.
Very unlikely though, considering where and how I hunt.

Most of my shots are within 80 yards. My 54-120 is sighted in dead on at almost 100 yards. The 458SOCOM 300gr Barnes and the 50-300gr FTX shoot pretty flat within this range.

I do hunt over a field though with shots reaching out to 200 yards but luckily the vast majority of deer walk far closer to my stand. My stand is huge so i have the luxury of keeping two rifles in it if i wish. The NULA is quite capable of 200 yards with Parker BEs and its sighted in for about 175 yards.

One thing some people forget is, if you are shooting at a downward angle your shots will likely hit higher than if you are shooting level. Close shots from my stand are more down than the longer shots. The elevation in the field i hunt raises as the shot distance increases until you reach the crest of the field.

Like Lee... where I live and hunt in the hardwoods and cedar bogs, 50 yards is just a long shot. I made a 52 yard shot once. That was only because the federal forest service brushed out the boundary line between my land and theirs. So it was wide open. Most my shots are 35 yards on average or less. I practice out to 100 and sometimes for fun will push that to 120 yards. But most my shooting is 75 yards and under at targets. That is why I read with such interest of the long range shooters and their abilities. I know my rifle and optics can do it. I just have doubts in myself.

I also once shot off shooting sticks 150 yards at a white paper dinner plate. Once I learned the bullet drop and drift, the rest was easy. But if an animal with optics mind you is over 120 yards... I am letting it walk. With open sights (this might shock some) 75 yards and under or it has the rifle to walk closer or leave.

For me and my rig, I am not going to shoot over 100 yards. I shoot a .54 with 100 gr load under a 535 gr No Excuses bullet. In Colorado no scopes allowed during ML season...so my rig isn't scoped. This is a strong rifle and a stout load and with my open sights 100 Yards is reasonable... I hit the 150 and the 200 yard gong consistently....but I am dead on at 100...with that rig any animal in 100 yards is my meat.