Hangfire problem with my T/C Triumph

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lefteye

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I get occasional hangfires in my Triumph. I got a set of bits to clean the primer pocket. http://www.plugcleaner.com/
It seems to work well as I see alot of residue when I clean the plug, but I still get the occasional hangfire.
I am shooting Blackhorn with CCI primers.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. This already cost me a nice doe!
 
If the flame channel in your plug is really clean, your issues may be caused by a sticky firing pin, caused by carbon build in the firing pin bushing. W209 primers always worked best in the Triumph i had.
 
I am not a T/C man so I am sure someone who is will chime in.
Some muzzleloaders have a BH209 specific breech plug.
Do you know if your plug is designed for BH209?
Also are you using reg. cci primers or the 209m primer.
If by chance you are using the primers for muzzleloaders, that is your problem.
BH209 needs more fire to ignite, it also needs a tight fitting bullet-sabot.
If you are using powerbelts or a loose fitting bullet/sabot combo., this could also be your problem.
 
I agree with all of the above. The Triumph breech plug works fine with BH 209. Keep the flame channel clean, use full strength primers, and a tight fitting bullet.

You haven't told us what bullet you're shooting?
 
When you unscrew the bushing that retains the firing pin in position be very careful there is a spring under tension it is small and light if it goes flying you may never find it. A bit of crud in there may well be your problem.
 
All good posts. T/C breech plugs are already designed to shoot BH, so no issue there. Although some get away with just a WIN209, its best to use the CCI209M or Federal 209A primers.

Absolutely a correct recommendation on cleaning the firing pin and as stated...... WATCH that spring.

Seat your bullet, what ever it is, TIGHT on BH209. TIGHT, TIGHT. I seated it with 106# force and ignition is instant.
 
This might not help but when my Optima was doing the same thing... the forum said to get hotter primers. So I went with the CCI M and the Remington STS primers. That solved the problem for me. Also I was told to keep the flash channel clean of course.
 
If you have the breech plug cleaning kit and keep the flash channel clean and the Fire hole is kept clean, the only other thing I can think of is are you cleaning between shots. If so you may have too much solvent or lube on a patch you use. If you are cleaning between shots after you put your solvent or lube on a patch, put it between your fingers and squeeze the patch, if you see one drop of solvent or lube come out you are using too much of one or the other. Every one else has covered every thing, I don't know if this will help but it was a shot in the dark. Good luck

There is one other thing, your breech plug uses a 1/8" drill bit to clean the flash channel. If you have a smaller drill bit in your kit it is not the right size, call the plug cleaner, they will make you a collar for a 1/8" drill bit for a nominal fee. The problem might be the size of the drill bit you are using, check it out.
 
d.winsor said:
If you have the breech plug cleaning kit and keep the flash channel clean and the Fire hole is kept clean, the only other thing I can think of is are you cleaning between shots. If so you may have too much solvent or lube on a patch you use. If you are cleaning between shots after you put your solvent or lube on a patch, put it between your fingers and squeeze the patch, if you see one drop of solvent or lube come out you are using too much of one or the other. Every one else has covered every thing, I don't know if this will help but it was a shot in the dark. Good luck

There is one other thing, your breech plug uses a 1/8" drill bit to clean the flash channel. If you have a smaller drill bit in your kit it is not the right size, call the plug cleaner, they will make you a collar for a 1/8" drill bit for a nominal fee. The problem might be the size of the drill bit you are using, check it out.

He's using BH 209. No need to clean between shots.

I'm still curious about the bullet he's using. He needs a tight fit for BH.
 
My brother had the same problem with the Triumph and BH209 and Thor bullets. Personally I shoot a Savage MLII smokeless, but I helped him overcome the problem. Seems the Triumph plug is overly long and causes a cooler ignition gas and the Thor does not seat tight enough for a good seal and building of pressure for ignition of BH209, IMO. He simply went to the Pyrodex or 777 and not any more problems. BH209 should not clog a plug nearly as bad as 777 or Pyrodex but that really isn't the problem. IMO it is the plug length and design and possibly a loose bullet situation. I offered to get him a recessed plug but he doesn't use the ML that much and the powder change solved the problem easily. BH209 can be hard to ignite if you have a loose fitting bullet or bullet/sabot and hangfires are the result. It does not sound like a fail to fire primer situation but a fail to ignite/hangfire for sure. Just my observations on possibilities. W
 
Never had a problem shooting BH209 in our Triumph, and it's been shot in very cold temps.
We use CCI209M primers and a tight fitting sabot and firm pressure to seat the bullet/sabot combo.

The plug is long, are u sure u are reaching are far as u can with the drill bit?
 
I am using bh 209 and I have to clean between every shot, at least when I am sighting in a bullet. My first shot from my gun fresh out of the safe was about 5" off every time, since I don't have anywhere to foul my gun before hunting, and every day thereafter if I foul the barrel, I will have to clean it, I won't hunt with a fouled barrel. I experimented and found that cleaning between shots with solvent and lube, eliminated the first shot out of the safe from being out of the group. If that is not a problem for many and if many don't mind fouling their barrel then more power to you. For anyone that is interested I use the Hoppe's Elite Gun Cleaner as a solvent, I called hoppe's and asked them if it was also ok to clean Pyrodex and Triple 7 also, they said not to worry, it is ok. For my lube I use slip 2000 gun lube, It is safe for BH 209 and other Black powder substitutes, including modern powders, that is straight from slip 2000 engineers.
 
d.winsor said:
I am using bh 209 and I have to clean between every shot, at least when I am sighting in a bullet. My first shot from my gun fresh out of the safe was about 5" off every time, since I don't have anywhere to foul my gun before hunting, and every day thereafter if I foul the barrel, I will have to clean it, I won't hunt with a fouled barrel. I experimented and found that cleaning between shots with solvent and lube, eliminated the first shot out of the safe from being out of the group. If that is not a problem for many and if many don't mind fouling their barrel then more power to you. For anyone that is interested I use the Hoppe's Elite Gun Cleaner as a solvent, I called hoppe's and asked them if it was also ok to clean Pyrodex and Triple 7 also, they said not to worry, it is ok. For my lube I use slip 2000 gun lube, It is safe for BH 209 and other Black powder substitutes, including modern powders, that is straight from slip 2000 engineers.

Why would they make a Hoppe's 9 for black powder if the regular stuff works? Hoppe's 9 is kerosene, and that doesn't sound like it would mix well with BP, or Pyrodex. T7 recommends water to clean. All sub solvent ,except BH should be water based.

As for having to swab with BH? You're the only one I know of. As for how to do it? take a shot the day before your hunt, and leave it that way. Load it up in the morning, and go hunt. You might as well use T7 if you're going to swab every shot.
 
Re read my post. I did not say Hoppe's #9, I said Hoppe's Elite Gun Cleaner. Hoppe's Elite Gun Cleaner has no odor and is nothing like Hoppe's #9. If you don't believe what the Hoppe's Technicians, told me call Hoppe's yourself.
As far as me taking a fouling shot I think I stated in my reply that I have nowhere to take a fouling shot before the hunt, also that I will not hunt with a fouled barrel. I think wet weather and humidity would not be kind to my fouled barrel. If I wanted to leave my gun loaded I could not do it on a fouled barrel, as I would have to clean it as soon as possible. I have no bone to pick with anyone that fouls their barrel and hunts, more power to them, it doesn't work for me.
So right now I have the best of both worlds, tighter groups and no first shot inaccuracies. What more could I want.
 
The MSDS for Elite and #9 are much much different. Elite contains no kerosene and has no fume warnings. They only list one CAS ingredient for Elite.

I still dont see any reason to swab using BH209 though. The OP had ignition issues, not accuracy issues at this time. Swabbing between shots is not going to make any improvement in ignition. It stands a chance of hurting it though if solvent gets in the flash hole. The vast majority of us never swab with BH209 and have no problems.

Swab, dry patch, lube, reload...no thanks...if i had to do that, i would go back to Triple7.
 
Thanks to all for the replies. I am shooting a 250 grain Hornady FTX with a Harvester Crush Rib sabot with CCI 209 shotgun primers. It loads well but snug. I do lean on the rod to make sure the load is tight. I was at the range last night and put a little Montana Bore Solvent through the breech plug, used the drill bit and blew a few primers through. I ran the Boresnake though the barrel , and proceeded to shoot three rounds a bit under an inch and a half. I ran the Boresnake through again and shot a similar group, no hangfires.
I do not have to swab between shots with the BH209, but run the snake though every three or four shots to the barrel cool. I did find a fouled barrel shoots better but shooting a primer does it. It seems that I must pay more attention to cleaning the flash channel.
 
Just for clarification maybe everyone should re read my replies, I did not recommend to the OP to clean between shots. What I recommended was for the OP to check the saturation levels of the solvent and lube patches if he did clean between shots, as too much of either would cause a hang fire or no fire. I think many people are reading more into my replies, than was intended. In any event it sounds like the OP has a handle on it, that is good.
 
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