Bullet Selection Help!!!

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I really think the knurling on the bloodlines is an ingenious idea also. The amount of torque created in a 1:28 twist barrel is huge! Any bit of traction that you can get between the bullet and sabot is a plus, and helps to stabilize the bullet. I like the 275 gr. but they are quite tight in my bighorn. But that adds more pressure :applause:
 
Muley Hunter said:
d.winsor said:
I shot nothing but T/C Maxie bullets from 1984 to 1990, never lost a deer. That being said I never recovered a bullet, regardless of the shot taken. You would think that an all lead soft bullet would expand, not on your life. I had to be spot on with my shot because with a pencil hole in and a pencil hole out, there was never a blood trail, I heard the deer drop or saw the deer drop, there was never any tracking. When I dressed the deer it was plum full of blood.

My recommendations to you would be to steer clear of Maxie bullets, That is not to say that they haven't killed a lot of deer.

If you wanted expansion the maxi hunter would have been a better choice. The maxi ball isn't 100% lead, and is made for penetration. If you were using the maxi hunter, and weren't getting expansion you were shooting them pretty slow.

I shot both the Maxie Ball and the Maxie Hunter with 100 grains of Black and/or 100 grains of Pyrodex. The Maxie Ball shot 2" groups at 100 yards, the Maxie Hunter wouldn't do close to that so I wouldn't use it to hunt with. Without going into the whole story, I sent some of my Maxie Ball Bullets and Maxie Hunter Bullets, which I cast Myself, into T/C. The T/C representative said "They could not get over the quality of my bullets". My bullets were cast with Pure Lead, you could destroy my bullets using only your fingernail in short order. As far as the Maxie hunter I cannot give any recommendation as I never used them on game. The Maxie Ball on the otherhand, if my bullets did not expand none will.
That being said maybe the newer guns with a 150 grain charge of powder, or better yet 120 grains of BH 209 might induce some expansion.
 
Bloodline are quality bullets but definitely keep Barnes 290 tez on your list . They are squeak cheaper especially if buy 24 pack and little better b.c. and terminal performance is outstanding.
 
Encore50, im a Barnes guy but seems they dont like to fly at higher velocity. I wonder if its bullets rr heavy and they tend to start yawing . Bullet rpm to high. What your thoughts.
 
bestill said:
Encore50, im a Barnes guy but seems they dont like to fly at higher velocity. I wonder if its bullets rr heavy and they tend to start yawing . Bullet rpm to high. What your thoughts.

I could get them (290 FB) to 4" at 300yds and couldn't tighten them up more. I tried knurling them and it helped (4") but I'm not satisfied. I talked with Randy Johnson (shooter for UF) about them. Randy said they shot great but, I would need the H5045LB sabot, which I was using at the time. I could shoot 3/4" groups at 200yds with them from my Pro Hunter, just can't figure out why I can't get them to shoot tighter with the Ultimate. Yawing may be it, I have no clue.

I know everybody talks about Barnes and the Remington Ultimate, and how Barnes is trying to develop data. Last I talked to Barnes, they couldn't get them to shoot tight with heavy charges either.
 
Between my ML hunting partner and me we have shot approximately 45 Michigan bucks and does in the last 15 years. We have both used the .429 (44) Honady 300 grain XTP. The range has varied from 2 to 105 yards. We have had a pass through every time. We have also have had good expansion with each shot. (The exit hole is always much larger than the entrance hole.) I discussed changing my bullet with once. He looked at me and said, "But this one works. Why change?" I couldnt argue!

This year I used a Hornady FTX for the first time. Frankly I found some 50 cheap that I could use in my MK85 54 cal. These did a fine job. But I have to say they did not seem any better than the XTP.

Michigan has now allowed straight walled cartridge rifles in what is now called the "special weapons zone". As usual there are dumb regs made by stupid, ignorant politicians, but the 44 Mag is legal (444 Marlin is too long but 500 S&W is allowable!) But this is great because slug guns keep a lot of youth and old timers out of the sport due to fierce recoil.

The sad ending to the story is that my buddy has switched to a 44 mag carbine. But he is still using the 300 gr XTP.

BTW I will never switch from my ML's. I just love them too much.
 
Xtp is a fine bullet but has aerodynamics of a brick.
 
The b.c. on the .44 xtp 300 grain is just as good than a lot of typical muzzleloader bullets. With that said, Barnes is my first choice.
 
We use Barnes all copper bullets. Use to use the TMZs with the supplied yellow sabot but recently switched to buying the Barnes TEZs in bulk and pairing them with a Harvester smooth black sabot for 300gr or less bullets, all our rifles seem to like this combo better. We have shot them slow and fast, 30yds to 200yds on deer, always expand. Blood trails have been poor to excellent depending on shot placement, high shot, not so good, low shot, easy tracking. My family has only recovered one bullet from a doe, all other shots were passthru. Bullet traveled lengthwise thru most of the body and lodged in the hip.
250tezandhsb_zps9296ca3b.jpg

Matts2nddoebarnesbullet-1.jpg
 
I appreciate all of the imput, definitely helped a ton!!! I ordered some 275grn Knight Bloodlines, I'm going to pick up some 300grn Hornady XTP and 275 or 300grn Barnes TEZ. I will then put them on target and through a couple deer to see which I like best. From the sounds of it all will produce the results I am looking for but it will give me a reason to play and shoot a few more deer :wink:

Thanks again for all of the help and great advice!!!
 
TargetPanic said:
I appreciate all of the imput, definitely helped a ton!!! I ordered some 275grn Knight Bloodlines, I'm going to pick up some 300grn Hornady XTP and 275 or 300grn Barnes TEZ. I will then put them on target and through a couple deer to see which I like best. From the sounds of it all will produce the results I am looking for but it will give me a reason to play and shoot a few more deer :wink:

Thanks again for all of the help and great advice!!!

Just my opinion but the Lehigh/Bloodline 458x275 grain bullet is probably one of the best all-around ML bullet out there. The Terminal Performance and accuracy that it offers are outstanding.
 
Sorry about that it is not .15% it is 15% reduction of Triple 7. To duplicate a blackpowder load velocity using triple 7 you must decrease the powder charge by 15%.
 
d.winsor said:
Sorry about that it is not .15% it is 15% reduction of Triple 7. To duplicate a blackpowder load velocity using triple 7 you must decrease the powder charge by 15%.

I think - well I am not sure what you are saying... now it makes sense - in reverse I would say...

T7-2f powder is approximately 15% hotter than the same volume load of BP or Pyros - other than Swiss. If you are shooting T7-3f add another 10%
 
I've been using Barnes for years and have always been amazed with performance. However....I'm trying the bloodlines this year as well. I'm a firm believer in "if it aint broke..." but I'm also willing to try new things that make sense. Controlled fragmentation is not a new technology necessarily. Muzzleloading perhaps but I'm really looking forward to giving them "a shot". My three boys will continue to use Barnes this season until we see how the Bloodlines perform. Ironically, in my searching I couldn't find a lot of field results. Tons of paper results. Sabotloader has provided me (via forum stalking) with more than enough data that leads me to believe they are on par with Barnes for sure. Post those field results TP! Mine are "in the mail" now, hope to put them to some paper this weekend.
 
dcinia, once I receive them (hopefully within a week) I will shoot them and be in the tree shortly after. I have a spot loaded with does, so I will be taking the first good broadside shot to see how they perform. I will definitely give you my results and take pics if I remember lol.
 
I've had great results on deer with the barnes 300 grain expander mz most of the deer dropped right where I shot them and the two that ran off only went 20-30 yards and had massive blood trails
 
Different bullets work best at different velocity with out the type and amount of powder and the twist you will be using its hard to say what would be best for you.
At what I consider lower hunting velocity 70 to 90 grains of Black or Pyrodex I would suggest XTP ,Shock Wave ,Barnes , Power belts at medium velocity 90 to 110 of Blackhorn or 777 the bonded Shock Wave, the bonded Deep Curl and Lehigh or Bloodline bullets at high velocity [all guns are not suited to heavy loads check you manual] 110 to 140 grain of Blackhorn the Lehigh or the Bloodlines made by Lehigh.
An other option is the 50/40 or the 45 caliber for these I would recommend the 50/40 200 grain Lehigh or Shock Wave I have heard good thing about the 195 grain 40 caliber Barnes but have not shot them myself.
 
TargetPanic,

As promised, here is my field report on the Bloodlines.

As mentioned in a previous post, I've used Barnes for years but decided to give some 250 grain Bloodlines a try.

On paper, with 100 grains of BH209 I was able to shoot a 1.5" group at 100 yards. I only shot 4 shots and was fine with that for now, I can fine tune later. On paper they were as advertised.

After seeing several small deer over the past week, a mature doe finally gave me a shot this morning. I was slightly higher than her, I would estimate a 20 degree incline? and she was slightly quartered towards me I would say, her front was slightly lower than her back and only about 40 yards out. I put the crosshairs behind the shoulder, center mass figuring I'd hit a tad high and squeezed it off.

After the shot, the deer (5 or 6 total) kind of scattered but were still around, after the smoke cleared I wasn't sure what deer I hit, if she dropped in her tracks or....if I had missed. So, for a few seconds I continued to watch when I noticed one deer with her tail tucked and occasional flick (as they do at times when they're hit). Sure enough, she went up and immediately bedded down and quickly expired. I would estimate from bang to down was only about 10 seconds at most, mentally, it was about 30 seconds but we all know how that goes.

She only went about 40 yards so I went down to where she was when I shot. I could not find any sign of blood. I went to where she was laying and backtracked to find blood. There was some about 5 yards from where she expired and very little between there and where the shot was. Granted, for the first in several years, we don't have snow on the ground in Iowa right now. I looked her over when I got to her, entry wound was right on the mark but, much to my surprise, there was no exit wound, low on the opposite side forward of the diaphragm area as I expected. I could see a couple spots where hair was messed up and upon further review of those areas, were probably where petals exited but, I missed the massive exit wound I'm used to with the Barnes and the bloodtrails I get with them. Granted, this time, 40 yds and watching her go down, blood trail was not required.

However....field dressing revealed significant damage. Her vitals, to put it mildly, were destroyed! I think every ounce of blood was in her chest cavity. Quite the mess for sure. Then, I noticed that her gut/stomach was nicked by either the bullet base or a petal ripping through there. I was not particularly fond of that. I'm still reliving the shot to figure out how it would be possible that the base of the bullet would take that path, I don't know. So, if that was the the main exit wound, the bullet base did not travel a straight line. Didn't expect that either. I guess, the base being lighter could tumble and go off path?

My assessment: I need a few more test cases to be totally sold. I will say, the bullet more than did it's job! It did the job and she expired quickly. That's really what matters most.It did that! Terminal performance was unreal. When I opened up her chest cavity, the Lehigh Defense/TwangnBang video quickly came to mind. This video clearly demonstrates the massive shock. Hope I'm violating any rules by posting here but if you've not seen this video, it's a good one on controlled fracture of the 300 grain 45/70 bullet that sabotloader uses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmpFcIhPY34.

- I was not impressed with the exit wound or lack of. Even if there was spot on exit wound, it will never be larger than the entry wound. That concerns me (bowhunting mentality where large open exit wounds are everything and if those get clotted or plugged, it's not a good thing for bloodtrails or tracking). My son shot a decent 9 point a few days ago with a 290 grain Barnes. Perfect shot, right through the vitals, that deer still managed to travel about 100 yards before going down. It went though swampy area, grass and pines, without a good blood trail, it would have taken a little more work for sure.
- I'm not really concerned about the petals finding there way into the meat really, again I didn't like it going past the diaphragm area and into the stomach with a well placed shot but, not like you can control where those things go.
- I was impressed with the terminal performance. I don't know the science behind it but I'm guessing there must be more shock and trauma than a traditional expanding bullet. Again, watch the above video and imagine that going on in the rib cage.
- It worked very well this time period. If it performs like this every time where shot placement is right on, then I won't need to worry about a blood trail.
- These are for sure not a one and done (i.e. Powerbelts) I'll hang on to these and try them out on a few more deer.

I hang/age my deer for 7-10 days hide on so I'm sure I'll know more once I skin her and see what's what a little better.

There you go, it worked awesome for me this morning, if I can get over the lack of massive exit wound hangup, I might stick with them.

I look forward to your report out as well TargetPanic, hope you season treats you well (as well as everyone's)
 
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