Remington Ultimate

Trying to set one up for another shooter. Tried for days to clean the barrel. After 5 hours work and a call to Remington, they want the rifle back to re-barrel it.

ENCORE50A said:

Trying to set one up for another shooter. Tried for days to clean the barrel. After 5 hours work and a call to Remington, they want the rifle back to re-barrel it.

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Slug it first. I bet the new barrel might have a different grove diameter, "X's" is .501" at the bore (lands) and .515 in the grooves. The land to groove width ratio is about 1:2 for a best guess.

Sorry to hear that I hope Remington turns it around fast for you and the owner.

Keep us updated, I'm very curious as to what is going on and waiting on that range report.

The following two photos are of the RU barrel. The first is NEW out of the box. The second photo is after 5 hours of cleaning, which included many different solvents, including mineral spirits and NAPA Premium De-greaser. In the second photo, the gunk can be seen in the corners of the lands and groves. I was able to clean most out but, the white spots appear like tooling marks or something. I have no clue but, Remington wants the rifle returned. The owner will make arrangements.

wow that is an ugly bore!

What happen to Remington now they mess up marlin lever action rifles ? Remington said there putting millions into all new machinery for there new plant.

Wow. :d'oh!: Why are they putting something like that in the bore? :huh?:

Don't they cost around $1k? I don't think I'd be too happy if I was the owner.

I think that they can be bought for around $750 at some places.

I'm told........ there may have been a bad batch of barrels and if so, this one may be one of them. I know of one other owner who had one heck of a time cleaning his NEW barrel but, it cleaned out and the barrel was fine. No sane person (yup, I said that) would work as hard as I did, trying to clean up a NEW & UNFIRED BARREL. I don't regret one single moment, but wish the owner's barrel wouldn't have turned out like that and him having to send the rifle back. I was actually and still am, looking forward to working on/with his rifle. He asked that after the rifle is returned, if I'd still do the work and of course, yes I will.

The problem with the internet and forums is, we hear a lot of bad things and not a lot of good about some products and we're all guilty to some degree or another. I had a phone conversation with a gentleman yesterday, very familiar with the rifle and who knows many with it. He's getting a total different opinion from the owners he converses with. They are reporting GREAT accuracy with their rifles and at ranges to 400yds.

So with a new product, there's most likely a few hiccups and some owners are going to be displeased. What ever problems that any shooter may be having, IMO its solely related to the quality of the barrel. Remington has a large investment in this new rifle and I'll believe they'll get it straightened out. In this owners case, I'm sure they will.

man I am glad I held off on getting one.
that defiantly is toll marks.

My first three shots sandbagged for groups at 100 yards. The varnish came out the barrel and I see no issues with the bore, it shoots well. Not sure why the varnished "packing grease" would differ in your barrel from mine, but I appear to have a good barrel, that is not finicky, is easy to load, and shoots consistent groups. My only negative is the height combination for the fixed sights. Have an old "new in box" Lyman 57 that I tried, and am tempted, but believe I'd be happier with a more compact receiver sight for hunting. Could not locate any spare rear bases at the shop, so one was placed on order. When it comes in, the bottom of the Williams and the top of the base will be machined flat to mate and mount at the corrected height. If that doesn't work out as I'd like, will call buddy in TX and have him send me up one of his sights.

Later

I'd add, Sorry you ran into such troubles. Might be good thing for re-barrel, sounds like you ran a lifetime of brush strokes down the barrel over a few days, even if you cleaned it out, hard to think the edge of the rifling and crown didn't take on some wear.

That engine degreaser works well to degrease an engine block, but next go around, I'd suggest trying something that attacks varnish, resins, and plastics. That solvent I use has a high content of ethyl methyl ketone and xylene, in addition to the mineral spirits. The mineral spirits is used to dissolve and thin the alox, but the other stuff attacks the plastics, resins, and varnish. I let mine soak heavy for about 5 to maybe 10 minutes tops and the varnish coating dissolved. Not sure what you would have different in that bad barrel, but I'd probably pull the breech plug and run a good brush one direction out the muzzle if there ends up a need to go heavy on the mechanical action next go around. I've had no build up since that initial cleaning, just the normal thin layer of Blackhorn residue. Loading is smooth and fairly easy throughout shot strings, no swabbing between shots.

You may not care or have a need for a large volume of solvent, I make it in 5-gallon lots, and the smallest amount you could make of the mixture I suggested, would be a full gallon. A good alternative for attacking the plastics, resins, and varnish, and you may already have some on hand if you work much with Acraglas, use some Brownells Acraglas solvent and thinner. It dissolves and thins Acraglas resins, and you can buy it by the quart. Good to keep on hand if you're working much with Acraglas, Marine-tex, etc.

Hopefully if it goes in on a work order for re-barreling, it will get a bit more attention to detail when packed up and shipped back. But, I'd strongly suggest avoiding such aggressive mechanical cleaning action in the future, especially if leaving the breech plug installed and running a brush two directions through the muzzle end.

Good Luck

sg.ellis2 said:

My first three shots sandbagged for groups at 100 yards. The varnish came out the barrel and I see no issues with the bore, it shoots well. Not sure why the varnished "packing grease" would differ in your barrel from mine, but I appear to have a good barrel, that is not finicky, is easy to load, and shoots consistent groups. My only negative is the height combination for the fixed sights. Have an old "new in box" Lyman 57 that I tried, and am tempted, but believe I'd be happier with a more compact receiver sight for hunting. Could not locate any spare rear bases at the shop, so one was placed on order. When it comes in, the bottom of the Williams and the top of the base will be machined flat to mate and mount at the corrected height. If that doesn't work out as I'd like, will call buddy in TX and have him send me up one of his sights.

Later

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I'd like to use that target photo if you don't mind?

I would like to know what he was shooting. bullet and powder.?

That was Blackhorn and Parker. Also tried Barnes Originals and factory green sabot Remington. All shot well in the 130 to 140 volume range. But, I need a non-sabot bullet. Will be trying the new Federal Trophy Copper, crossing my fingers they will shoot well.

which parker bullet did you use would like to try it for myself.

They were Parker Production 275 Ballistic Extreme, and that particular charge was 91 grains weight (130 volume). Spin Jag starter, and Spin Jag appear to add icing to the cake, makes loading more consistent.

I believe the 160 grain volume Blackhorn load Bob Parker used was also with the 275BE, but NRA American Rifleman tested the Remington Ultimate as their "Gun of the Week", and they were using Parker Production 250 Ballistic Extreme, which averaged 0.89-inches for 3-shots at 100-yards. There are also test reports out with the heavier version shooting bug hole groups, so it appears the entire Parker BE series shoots well and is the top dog for accuracy. But, mine will also shoot the other bullets I noted above around MOA, just not as tight a group as the Parker. For long range, however, looks like the heavier Parker and the Barnes Original would be best options for retaining velocity and energy downrange, due to the higher B.C. Not sure how long before Western Powders complete their testing and publish the "Remington Ultimate Only" loads, but if it ends up that those 160 grain volume loads of Blackhorn are proofed safe, that Bob Parker load with his bullets might be the pinnacle of long range performance for this particular rifle.

Best

I,m confused. Didn't someone on this sight say Remington Ultimate was not to use BH 209?

fivebull said:

I,m confused. Didn't someone on this sight say Remington Ultimate was not to use BH 209?

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From the "Quick Reference Instruction" booklet I have in my hand at the moment..... "STEP 5: Loading the Pelletized Propellant: 22: Place the rifle on a solid surface with the muzzle pointed up, well away from your face and body. 23: Using the recommended pelletized propellant, drop the correct amount of pellets into the bore. Never exceed the maximum charge of 200gr of Triple Seven. See Picture 8"



The manual, also now in my hand, discusses "Black Powder, Pyrodex and Triple Seven" "NOTE: The M700 Ultimate Muzzleloading rilfle is designed for use with a maximum powder charge of 200 grains of Triple Seven FFG granular powder, or 200 grains of Triple Seven pellets."


"WARNING! Only use Black Powder or Black Powder Substitutes such as PROOFED™ or Triple Seven™ in your M700 Muzzleloader. Never use modern smokeless gun powder even if it is black in color. The use of any other propellant besides Black Powder or Black Powder Substitutes may cause property damage, personal injury or death."

fivebull said:

I,m confused. Didn't someone on this sight say Remington Ultimate was not to use BH 209?

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You should not use Blackhorn 209 in the Ultimate Firearms muzzleloader because the breech plug is designed and intended for pellets. You can use Blackhorn 209 in the Remington Ultimate, Remington made the breech plug with stronger materials with a design improvement that protects the threads. Western Powders have tested the Remington to their current published 120 grains max, and at some point in the future, will publish higher load recommendations to be used in this Remington only, because of its stronger design. Most I know are currently running 130 to maybe 150 volume tops, but a few of the big name guys have been running loads up to around 160 grains volume. Personally, I will wait for Western Powders to come out with their findings before I'd make it a habit to run that much Blackhorn.

never heard of PROOFED™ powder. dont even show on a search. Must be more stuff under the dupont, or whatever the parent company is umbrella