Blackhorn 209??

So, I have a CVA Kodiak Magnum made in 04/05 time frame. I would like to try some blackhorn 209. Does anyone know if its safe in that vintage rifle, and if so, is there a newer style breech plug for the BH 209 in the CVA Kodiak?

Lastly, is the W209 primer hot enough to ignite the BH 209 powder consistently or do you need to shoot a magnum primer?

Any experience or advice would be very much appreciated.

Depending on who responds to your question you will get varied answers. I personally tried the W209 and it failed to ignite the BH powder. So immediately the group said that was my problem. So I switched to a CCI and STS primer and that helped a lot. I would think if it ignites your rifle can handle the powder. As for a newer style breech plug... not that I know of. But Ron can help you out. He's a magician when it comes to making plugs work with this powder. Amazing talent.

I have that same model and year gun and I'm going to shoot magnum charges through mine without worry. I've heard the original plug must be modified to reliably shoot BH 209. Contact ronlaughlin from this forum for mods to your plug. Yes W209's are fine with BH powder.

Thx. I will check with Ron too.

I just looked at that thread. Here is a pic of my current BP in the gun. Not sure based on those other pictures what I need to do with mine? Maybe you or Ron can comment? I sent Ron a PM too.

Ron can drill and tap your plug for a removable vent liner.

silentstalker said:

So, I have a CVA Kodiak Magnum made in 04/05 time frame. I would like to try some blackhorn 209. Does anyone know if its safe in that vintage rifle, and if so, is there a newer style breech plug for the BH 209 in the CVA Kodiak?

Lastly, is the W209 primer hot enough to ignite the BH 209 powder consistently or do you need to shoot a magnum primer?

Any experience or advice would be very much appreciated.

Depending on who responds to your question you will get varied answers. I personally tried the W209 and it failed to ignite the BH powder. So immediately the group said that was my problem. So I switched to a CCI and STS primer and that helped a lot. I would think if it ignites your rifle can handle the powder. As for a newer style breech plug... not that I know of. But Ron can help you out. He's a magician when it comes to making plugs work with this powder. Amazing talent.

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silentstalker said:

I just looked at that thread. Here is a pic of my current BP in the gun. Not sure based on those other pictures what I need to do with mine? Maybe you or Ron can comment? I sent Ron a PM too.

Click to expand...

Silent Stalker,

Back in 2009, I shot that exact rifle and several others while at Western Powders Ballistic Lab outdoor range. They had a slew of new OEM breech plugs for it, and it shot ok with CCI 209M primers for a few shots. The biggest concern I had with the rifle, was the extreme amount of barrel whip, due in large part to the stock flex at the opening for the drop block. This allowed the barrel to rock in the stock, as evidenced by the rubbing pattern at the breech end of the barrel from the stock. Bedding that rifle would have helped a ton, IMO.

The biggest problem with shooting Blackhorn 209 in that rifle, is not the rifle, but rather the breech plug design. This breech plug was designed before Blackhorn 209 was available, and uses a small 3mm diameter flame channel. That is the biggest problem, even more so than the small flash hole. The small diameter flame channel will start filling in with primer fouling/carbon in relatively few shots. This leads to delayed/hang fires after only a few shots in most rifles. Just by merely opening up the flame channel to 5/32", it will perform reliably. Another route that is taken by some is to just open up the flash hole itself to 0.035", and although it works, would not be my first choice.

Ron L provides a service of opening up the flame channel in those breech plugs to 5/32", and tapping them for a vent liner. This would be my first choice, and then you can merely change a vent liner if/when you wear one out. This method will make your rifle totally reliable in instantly igniting Blackhorn 209, the others above are just a Band Aid fix to get by for a short period. You will not regret getting your breech plug, or better yet a brand new breech plug customized for shooting Blackhorn 209. The initial up front cost is minimal, and will actually save you from having to replace complete breech plugs down the road. You can experiment with vent liners with different diameter flash holes if you so choose.

I have several custom breech plugs (approximately 50) for several rifles (15 plus a Pistol) set up this same way, and IMO, it don't get any better for shooting Blackhorn 209. 100% reliability when igniting Blackhorn 209 is priceless. Some OEM breech plugs just need a little help to make them that way.

Thank you Busta. I have communicated with Ron and its in the works! Appreciate very valuable feedback!

So I went out today and tried BH 209 in my CVA Kodiak with a stock breech plug.

I shot 23 shots in a row without any form of cleaning or swabbing. I only had access to W209 primers so that is what I used. I only had 1 misfire and it was shot #7. The entire primer was covered in smoke. The rest of the 22 primers varied from completely silver to smoky on one side of the primer. All were good solid fires.

Here is a random pic of a few of the primers.



i think the jury is still out but I am impressed with the cleanliness and accuracy of this powder. I am awaiting some Federal 209's which will be my primer of choice. Thanks again for all your help!

Here is my last three shot group fired from a 1x scope at 100 yards. Hornady SST low drag 300 gr.

I only had access to W209 primers so that is what I used.

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You make that sound like a bad thing. :wink:

I see a couple things with the primers. Win209a are a long primer and you seem to still have some leaking around the primer leaving that soot on the sides. It also looks like the primer is backing out of the cup a little. I am wondering if you might benefit from installing an O-ring in the bottom of the primer pocket in the breech Plug. That might make the Win209 fully reliable and no need for the hotter Fed209A.

What size o ring would I get and where would I find one? I was thinking the hotter Fed209A would help eliminate the 1 dud, but if an O ring would help, I am all for trying that first.

Looks like those 300gr SST's shot well out of your rifle. :yeah:

Did you clean your flash channel after every few shots or shoot all with no cleaning?

I cleaned the flash channel about every six shots. I used welding tip cleaners.

Has anyone NOT shot the 250-300 SSTs or Shockwaves well, when providing it with the proper plastic sabot that fits your bore best -- when using an above minimum and below maximum powder volume -- in a 1:24 - 1:32 twist barrel -- in a overwhelmingly typical hunting yardage range of 200 yards or less?

That bullet was designed to fly straight and narrow...... period / exclamation point...... (my opinion).

silentstalker said:

What size o ring would I get and where would I find one? I was thinking the hotter Fed209A would help eliminate the 1 dud, but if an O ring would help, I am all for trying that first.

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o-ring

silentstalker said:

I cleaned the flash channel about every six shots. I used welding tip cleaners.

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You weren't cleaning the flash channel with those tip cleaners, they are a way too small, or perhaps one should say the flash channel is a way too big. Something like a 7/64" drill would serve the purpose of opening the flash channel. In my experience, the flash hole never ever gets plugged when shooting Blackhorn, however, the flash channel will get smaller and plugged with a very hard carbon.

silentstalker, O-ring PN is 9262K61. From McMaster-Carr. That will fix your blow by issue. It looks like you will need them to correct the head space also. You should get a 3mm drill bit to clean out the "flame channel" of the plug as well. Hand turn only.

silentstalker said:

I cleaned the flash channel about every six shots. I used welding tip cleaners.

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Ron and Casper gave you links and part numbers for the O-Ring. That will seal up the primer in the primer pocket. That will force all the flame and pressure from the primer through the Breech plug. I would bet that will solve the 1 dud you had and make it ignite with the win209 reliably. I did this with a Knight KRB7 and it functions perfectly with the Win and Rem STS.

You really don't need the welding tip cleaners. The smallest hole in the breech plug is the "Flash Hole", at most I would recommend only using the smooth part of those tip cleaners and not the filing part. I rarely use them even though I have a set in my box. Any good spray carbon cleaner is usually enough to clean that Flash Hole. The "Flash Channel" though is a different story, that is the larger hole between the primer pocket and that little Flash Hole. As casper said for most CVA you need the 3mm drill bit and TURN IT BY HAND to scrape the carbon build up out. Then clean it with solvent and a Q-tip.

These type of bits make it easier to turn by hand or using a nut driver handle.

Thanks everyone. I just ordered the O rings and will go buy the drill bit. I should be good to go now! Thanks for all your help!

Got my drill bits today and the O rings should be here tomorrow. Thanks again for all the great info.

To answer a question that has been asked, the above load was 90 gr. by volume