Plan for Finding Best Load for New Muzzleloader

UPDATED on 10/23/2015 -- Minor Progress

I have been much busier than I anticipated, but finally got back out the range yesterday for a brief period to work on testing load combinations. Updates are below in red. Stepping up to the 290/300 grain bullets really tightened up the groups. With the sun and the targets I was using I was catching a lot of glare so I think I can improve on these a bit. So far, the Harvester Scorpion PT Gold with the smooth Harvester Sabot is the most accurate in each weight class. The Barnes TEZ in the blue sabot is a close second, printing groups just about .25 M.O.A. larger than the PT Gold in each weight.

While I enjoy target shooting with all of my guns, the sole "purpose" of this muzzleloader is to take deer. For that reason, I really only care about the first two shots, however, all groups will be done with 3 shots. I do not see how a 5 or 10 shot group will tell me anything I can use for hunting that a 3 shot group will not. I am, however, willing to be enlightened. All the shooting will be performed across a good number of days and will probably take me quite a while to complete. I am sure this is overkill, but I like to shoot. I figure after putting a couple hundred rounds down range, I will certainly be familiar with the gun, its ability, and my ability with it. That said, my plan and approach is below.

Setup
CVA Accura V2 Nitride w/Thumbhole
-- Buttstock filled with craft sand and sealed to improve rifle balance
Leupold VX-2 3-9x40 w/ Longrange Duplex
Powder -- Blackhorn 209
Primer -- CCI 209M

Bullet/Sabot Combinations
All shots will be at 100 yards, using 105 grains by volume. All groups will consist of the three shots, unless I clearly pulled one, then a fourth may be fired (we'll see). Starting with a clean bore, I will fire two primers and then load and proceed to shoot the group. I will not swab the bore between shots. I will use a patch with solvent followed by a dry patch between groups; I will also take a drill bit to the flash channel between groups. Depending on the air temperature, I will wait 3 to 5 minutes between shots and 10 to 15 minutes between groups. I will note where the first shot of each group lands in relation to the other two to gauge consistency of the clean/cold bore among different bullet/sabot combinations.

Based on what I currently have on hand, I will be testing the following combinations (one group of three shots each): Actual target distance is 104 yards so results are posted as the calculated M.O.A.

-- Barnes 250 grain TMZ with supplied sabot -- 2.54 M.O.A.

-- Barnes 250 grain TMZ with Harvester Yellow Crushed Rib Sabot -- 2.65 M.O.A.

-- Barnes 250 grain TMZ with Harvester Smooth Sabot -- The first two shots of this combination completely missed the 2' x 2' target board. I did not shoot a third shot and do not plan to consider this load further. I may, at some point, shoot it at 50 yards to see what it does. Even if it groups well, I would be concerned that the point of impact was drastically different (at least a foot off in one or more directions) from every other combination tested.

-- Barnes 250 grain TEZ with Supplied Sabot -- 2.51 M.O.A.

-- Barnes 250 grain TEZ with Harvester Crushed Rib Sabot -- 2.86 M.O.A. **Currently the least accurate combination (for which I was able to determine a group size)**It is interesting that this combination loaded with only very slightly more force (perceived at least) than the 260 grain Scorpion PT Gold, yet I had no firing issues and recoil felt stout.

-- Barnes 250 grain TEZ with Harvester Smooth Sabot -- Not yet tested

-- Barnes Expander 250 grain with supplied sabot -- Not yet tested

-- Barnes Expander 250 grain with Harvester smooth sabot --Not yet tested

-- Harvester Scorpion PT Gold 260 grain with supplied crushed rib sabot -- This combination loaded with so little force that I suspected I may run into issues with igniting the Blackhorn 209. The first two shots impacted the target approximately 2-1/2 inches apart. With the third shot, I heard the primer go off, but nothing else. I held steady for approximately 30 seconds in case of a hangfire. I checked the bore and it was empty. At first I thought I somehow forgot to load the bullet/sabot. Not seeing it on the bench, I walked the target line and found a near mint bullet approximately 35 yards down range. Realizing what happened, I tried another shot (with a fresh bullet). The result was the same, except this time I felt very minor recoil. That bullet was found about 40 yards down range. With a 50% failure rate, I will discontinue further testing of this combination.

-- Harvester Scorpion PT Gold 260 grain with Harvester smooth sabot -- 2.31 M.O.A. **Currently the most accurate load tested in the 250/260 grain bullets** Unlike with the crushed rib sabot, this combination loaded with sufficient force.

-- Hornady XTP (.44 cal) 300 grain with supplied sabot -- 2.51 M.O.A.

-- Barnes 290 grain TMZ with supplied sabot -- 2.89 M.O.A. This load was extremely tight going down the barrel.

-- Barnes 290 grain TMZ with Harvester Crushed Rib Sabot -- 1.55 M.O.A.

-- Barnes 290 grain TEZ with supplied sabot -- 1.51 M.O.A.

-- Barnes 290 grain TEZ with Harvester Crushed Rib Sabot -- Not yet tested

-- Barnes 290 grain TEZ with Harvester Smooth Sabot -- Not yet tested

-- Barnes Expander 300 grain with supplied sabot -- Not yet tested

-- Barnes Expander 300 grain with Harvester smooth sabot -- Not yet tested

-- Harvester Scorpion PT Gold 300 grain with supplied sabot -- 3.49 M.O.A. This combination loaded with such little pressure I thought I might have ignition issues. While each round fired the group is unacceptable.

-- Harvester Scorpion PT Gold 300 grain with Harvester smooth sabot 1.28 M.O.A. **Currently the most accurate combination tested**.

I may add the T/C shockwave to the list, but am not sure. I may add the 250 gr and/or 300 gr .452 XTP with Harvester sabots to the list, as my local Bass Pro just starting stocking those bullets. I am aware of the Parker Ballistic Extremes, but do not plan on testing them at this time. I am personally not a fan of Power Belts, so they will not be tested.

From the above combinations, I will take what appear to be the most accurate (3 to 6 combinations) and shoot two more three shot groups using the same cleaning and timing routine as above. That will give me three 3 shot groups of each combination. The groups will have been fired on two if not three separate days. I think that should be enough information for me to see how the first clean/cold shot performs against follow up shots. I can overlay the three groups for each load to ensure the point of impact is the same and judge the overall size of a 9 shot group, etc... From this, I will choose the bullet and sabot I will work with.

Testing Various Charge Weights
Now that I have my bullet and sabot selected, it is time to find the best charge weight. I may or may not continue to use volume measured charges at this point. I will plan to shoot three 3 shot groups at various charge weights/volumes. Since I already have three groups for 105 grains, I do not need to re-shoot that. I will fire groups using 95, 100, 110, and 115 grains. I doubt I will go below 95 or above 115 grains by volume. In the end, I will have the most accurate bullet/sabot/charge combination for the rifle, based on the components tested.

After I have my desired load, I will shoot at ranges from 25 to 300 yards to build the trajectory for the round (my range maxes out at 300, so why not). Based on that, I can then make an educated choice of where to set my zero based on the subtensions in my scope and distances I realistically could shoot. I will then check my accuracy standing, sitting, etc... to determine my self-imposed max range for taking deer.

When it comes time to hunt, I will duplicate the bore conditions by starting with a clean bore, run a patch with solvent followed by a dry patch and two primers. Then load for the hunt. I typically only hunt on Saturdays due to work and Maryland's very limited Sunday hunting, so I typically unload my muzzleloader after each day of hunting. I think I will also experiment with leaving a charge in the gun for days at a time, keeping an eye on rust issues and point of impact shifts.
Okay, now I am tired of typing. So that's my plan. I would love to hear if I am missing something, putting too much emphasis somewhere, not enough, etc...

Looking forward to your results.

My son's Accura V2 likes 110gr BH209, 250gr TEZ, Harvester smooth black, and W209 primers.

Thanks for posting your plan and congratulations on your new rifle. The Accura looks like a great rifle. I hope you post progress reports as you work through your load optimization. If we can bet on your results my money is on the 300 grain XTPs. I never made it beyond your sight-in/break-in load with my Omega. It liked the 240 grain XTP's in Harvester Crush Ribs over 100 grains of Blackhorn so that's where I stopped with that rifle. I didn't find much difference between a fouled vs. clean bore so I always shoot from a clean bore and have left the load in that rifle for a year with no problem. Recently I purchased a Remington Ultimate and started evaluating loads for it. So far not so good of results with Barnes TEZ 250's or TEZ 300's with supplied sabots over 120 Gr Balckhorn. I'm getting near MOA at 170 yds. with 300 grain 44 cal XTPs in smooth Harvester sabots and 120 grains Blackhorn. I'm thinking about trying the Scorpions next but it's going to be hard to improve over the XTPs!

Looking forward to your reports also. You should compile some nice data, you have quite a bit of shooting to do

I just bought the same exact ML.
CVA Accura V2 Thumbhole stock, Nitride barrel.
Leupold Mark AR Mod 1 TMR with a Firedot reticle 3-9X40mm

I too am going to shoot some groups with different loads.
W 209A primers
BH209 powder
250 gr Barnes TMZ with supplied sabots
Hornady 300gr SST's with supplied sabots
Lehigh Defense 300gr Controlled fracturing, subsonic, with Harvestor crushed rib sabots
Powerbelt Aerolite 250gr
The scope is for accuracy testing only.
I am really only interested in groups 125yrds or less, due to the fact that where I hunt, you cannot use power optics. So open sights are it. I might try some 200yrd groups just for sh!!ts and giggles as well.
Good luck on your load development.

good luck with your quest

With what you've said here the 2 most consistently accurate bullets are the TEZ 250 & the PT Gold 260. Both in Harvester Smooth sabots with 110gr BH2099 (by volume) The solvent treatment isn't advised & actually downright forbidden by Western Powders. If rust is a concern, lightly mist a patch with 90% isopropyl alcohol & run it up & down the fouled bore, The alcohol will help to neutralize the by products that can attract moisture & cause rust.

Try this at the range & make sure your POI stays the same.

Good luck, Greg

I will give updates as I make progress. I hope to begin testing out the different loads/combinations next weekend.

GregK said:

The solvent treatment isn't advised & actually downright forbidden by Western Powders. If rust is a concern, lightly mist a patch with regular Windex & run it up & down the fouled bore, The Windex will help to neutralize the by products that can attract moisture & cause rust.

Try this at the range & make sure your POI stays the same.

Good luck, Greg

Click to expand...

I was thinking of doing a test by comparing three 3 shot groups with each group starting with a clean bore to three 3 shot groups fired without any cleaning of the barrel, just to satisfy my curiosity. This would be to see if there is any accuracy change or shift in the point of impact. I have been shooting Blackhorn since 2010 and know all about the "not swabbing" aspect. During my initial sight-in/break-in, I fired 25 shots on two days and didn't touch the bore until I was done. At that point, I wasn't concerned about accuracy or point of impact shift so much as learning the gun, the trigger, etc...

That said, I suspect I will continue to swab between groups (not shots) due to how this gun will be used. I will be doing my load development and zeroing this winter and spring while conditions are closer to those I will hunt in. January through May or so is the only time it will get shot other than while hunting. Summer is when I shoot my bow and centerfire/rimfire guns. I start bowhunting in early September. I typically get to hunt with the muzzleloader the last two Saturday's in October. Unless it gets bumped, dropped, or I want to change something, my muzzleloader will sit in the safe and not be touched from June to late October. In late October, I will pull it out, clear the oil out of the barrel, snap a couple of caps, and load it for the hunt. I will hunt with it those two days and then it will get cleaned and go back in the safe until the late muzzleloader season, which is the last two weeks of December. It will then get pulled out, oil removed from the bore, a couple caps fired, and again loaded for the hunt.

I want to select my load and zero by using the same bore/breech conditions the rifle will be in for hunting; that means a clean bore and a clean breech plug. While I enjoy shooting tiny groups, the only group that matters for me is the first shot out of a clean barrel on what is likely a cool or cold morning. The gun will then immediately be reloaded and, If I am lucky, I might get a shot at a second deer in the afternoon. It would seem to me that testing while trying to duplicate those conditions will be the most conducive to getting the results I want.

GregK said:

With what you've said here the 2 most consistently accurate bullets are the TEZ 250 & the PT Gold 260. Both in Harvester Smooth sabots with 110gr BH2099 (by volume) The solvent treatment isn't advised & actually downright forbidden by Western Powders. If rust is a concern, lightly mist a patch with regular Windex & run it up & down the fouled bore, The Windex will help to neutralize the by products that can attract moisture & cause rust.

Try this at the range & make sure your POI stays the same.

Good luck, Greg

Click to expand...

Greg, Can you elaborate on what aspect of swabbing is "forbidden" by Western? Do you mean with cleaners designed for BP or does that include cleaners like Hoppes? Thanks

First I want to say I edited my post to say 90% Isopropyl alcohol instead of Windex. I just got them mixed up in their respective uses. My bad.....sorry

Now to answer the question from rainorshine......Western advise against using any ANY solvents or oils when shooting or for leaving a gun loaded for a hunt & to be sure to remove any & all oils to have a totally dry bore before shooting the gun. Solvents & oils cause excessive fouling & mud & the dampness from them can cause loading or ignition problems.

Dry patch swabbing is ok but you must do it in the field exactly as you do it n the range or your POI will be different with a dirty barrel vs a clean one.

Hope this helps, Greg

Thanks Greg, I appreciate the clarification.

Rainorshine said:

Thanks Greg, I appreciate the clarification.

Click to expand...

Anytime Greg

I have updated the original post.

Vandy - so you're going to shoot about 19 different bullet/sabot combinations in 3 shot groups of 4 different powder charges? That would be 19 x 12 = 228 shots, that ought to fill up a day at the range.

tpcollins said:

Vandy - so you're going to shoot about 19 different bullet/sabot combinations in 3 shot groups of 4 different powder charges? That would be 19 x 12 = 228 shots, that ought to fill up a day at the range.

Click to expand...

Close but not quite. When all is said and done it will be 19 different bullet/sabot combinations at 105 grains, with three shot groups (57 shots). I will then take anywhere from 3 to 6 of those combinations and fire two more three-shot groups (18 shots). I will pick the best one and fire that combination at 4 different powder charges (12 shots). So, my goal is to have my desired load after about 87 shots. That will go up if I throw more bullets into the testing. I will do this over several range trips.

Thanks for the update. You have alot of work ahead. If you plan to update your original post with your results, you might consider posting the results in Red so it will be easy to pick out what you've updated.

I can appreciate how much work it is... looking forward to seeing how your results shake out! :yeah:

Vandy said:

tpcollins said:

Vandy - so you're going to shoot about 19 different bullet/sabot combinations in 3 shot groups of 4 different powder charges? That would be 19 x 12 = 228 shots, that ought to fill up a day at the range.

Click to expand...

Close but not quite. When all is said and done it will be 19 different bullet/sabot combinations at 105 grains, with three shot groups (57 shots). I will then take anywhere from 3 to 6 of those combinations and fire two more three-shot groups (18 shots). I will pick the best one and fire that combination at 4 different powder charges (12 shots). So, my goal is to have my desired load after about 87 shots. That will go up if I throw more bullets into the testing. I will do this over several range trips.

Click to expand...

I understand - but by doing it that way, you'll never know if one of the previous 19 combinations that were eliminated in the initial 105 grain test, actually shot better if it had been tested in one of the other 4 powder charges.

I'm going to try something similar this year when I sight in my new scope, but using the JBM SG Stability formula, the 250gr Barnes TMZ falls within the preferred range so that's my keeper bullet. 100 grains of BH209 weighs about 70 grains, so I'll set up the scope initially at 70 grains by weight, and shoot 72, 74, 76, 78, 80, and maybe 82 grains by weight charge (Modern Powders suggested 3 grain intervals and this equals 2.86 grains). I really like that bullet, I'll just find which charge keeps the scatter node away from the muzzle.

Looking forward to see your test results, good luck.

I like that idea better. Grab a few bullets of interest and find the powder charge that they like the most.

I understand - but by doing it that way, you'll never know if one of the previous 19 combinations that were eliminated in the initial 105 grain test, actually shot better if it had been tested in one of the other 4 powder charges.

I'm going to try something similar this year when I sight in my new scope, but using the JBM SG Stability formula, the 250gr Barnes TMZ falls within the preferred range so that's my keeper bullet. 100 grains of BH209 weighs about 70 grains, so I'll set up the scope initially at 70 grains by weight, and shoot 72, 74, 76, 78, 80, and maybe 82 grains by weight charge (Modern Powders suggested 3 grain intervals and this equals 2.86 grains). I really like that bullet, I'll just find which charge keeps the scatter node away from the muzzle.

Looking forward to see your test results, good luck.

Click to expand...

You do raise a good point. Perhaps I will modify my plan a bit and take the 3 to 6 best combinations and test those with different powder charges, rather than just the single best at 105 grains. As point out, 19 combinations of 3-shot groups at 5 powder charges would be 285 shots. If I test out the various powder charges on the top 6 performers it would significantly reduce my overall shot count (cost) but still give me more information. Doing so would result in the initial combination testing of 105 grains (57 shots), plus testing 6 combinations at 4 additional charges (72 shots), or a total of 129 shots, less than half of doing all combinations at all charges.

Vandy - I use this JBM Stability program for a heads up on what "should" be a good bullet to use. It requires the bullet diameter, weight, length, length of polymer tip if applicable, the BC, barrel twist and the only variable is the velocity. The recommended stability number is between 1.4 and 1.8. At 2000 fps, the 250gr TMZ has a SG of 1.552 out of my 1:28" barrel. This only indicates that it should be stable but I've really only shot with 110 grains of BH209, so I don't really know if the scatter node/harmonics is at the muzzle, the breach, or somewhere in between.

You can tweak the velocity to find out what it takes to put a particular bullet into the recommended range. Good luck.


http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi