Why not power belts?

How about one shot right through the "sweet spot" at about 90yds, 110grs 2f from a Knight.

Bullet passed through the deer and buried itself in the dirt in a picked corn field and was recovered. Deer ran almost 100yds and never bled a drop on the snow until it fell.

I'm far from an expert on Powerbelts, or anything else for that matter. However, I have shot a total of 6 deer with PBs, and the results were all the same. Fired gun, deer took no more than 10 steps, and fell dead. Range was no more than 60 yards for any of the shots. However, I try to keep in mind that I am using a muzzleloader, and have no reason or desire to break any ballistic speed records. My standard load is 70 gr. Goex 3f behind a 405 gr PB in a T/C .50 Cal. Hawken. No bullet failures, complete pass throughs, and decent exit holes. I fail to see what improvement is needed. Heavy for caliber bullet, at reasonable velocity does the job.
As a matter of fact, this is close to the old .45-70-405 load. in my case it's a .50-70-405.

NTProf said:

A hip shot is a poor shot with any bullet.

Click to expand...

On one of the elk I shot with a 350 grain FPB, the bullet hit just above the elbow in the end of the humerus. I defy you to find a bigger bone on an elk. The bullet smashed through the bone, fragmented and tore up the lungs and the heart. The elk went 30 yards. A powerbelt would have stopped at the shoulder.

Tweesdad said:

I'm far from an expert on Powerbelts, or anything else for that matter. However, I have shot a total of 6 deer with PBs, and the results were all the same. Fired gun, deer took no more than 10 steps, and fell dead. Range was no more than 60 yards for any of the shots. However, I try to keep in mind that I am using a muzzleloader, and have no reason or desire to break any ballistic speed records. My standard load is 70 gr. Goex 3f behind a 405 gr PB in a T/C .50 Cal. Hawken. No bullet failures, complete pass throughs, and decent exit holes. I fail to see what improvement is needed. Heavy for caliber bullet, at reasonable velocity does the job.
As a matter of fact, this is close to the old .45-70-405 load. in my case it's a .50-70-405.

Click to expand...

That's probably the best way to use PB's. Use the big ones, and don't push them too fast.

txhunter58 said:

NTProf said:

A hip shot is a poor shot with any bullet.

Click to expand...

On one of the elk I shot with a 350 grain FPB, the bullet hit just above the elbow in the end of the humerus. I defy you to find a bigger bone on an elk. The bullet smashed through the bone, fragmented and tore up the lungs and the heart. The elk went 30 yards. A powerbelt would have stopped at the shoulder.

Click to expand...

I was talking about a hip shot, not a shoulder shot.

Let's talk about bullet failure. My thoughts on the subject are simplistic to say the least. If the bullet hits a major bone, and does not penetrate to the vitals, one could say that the bullet failed. On the other hand, shooting an elk in the hip is not bullet failure, it's lousy marksmanship. Keep in mind what you are using. Lead bullets, any lead bullets, deform on impact. This leads to a reduction in penetration. So, if you shoot a deer and hit the heart, spine, or penetrate both lungs, and the deer gets away, that is bullet failure. Basically, that is also next to impossible. If you penetrate only one lung, you may have to track the deer for some distance. If your tracking skills are not up to this, you shouldn't be out there in the first place.
So, this is how I attempt to eliminate bullet failure. I take only broadside or quartering away shots within 75 yards. I use a heavy for caliber bullet at a reasonable muzzle loader velocity. I spend hours at the range to make sure that I can hit what I am aiming at. And, I will pass on any shot I am not SURE I can make. I have also spent years perfecting my tracking skills.
Now, I can't guarantee this will work for all out there, but it sure as heck works for me.
This year, I was fortunate enough to take deer number 113 in my hunting career. Not all with a M/L, but I have never had a M/L bullet failure yet. Don't think it's just luck.

Muley Hunter said:

Tweesdad said:

I'm far from an expert on Powerbelts, or anything else for that matter. However, I have shot a total of 6 deer with PBs, and the results were all the same. Fired gun, deer took no more than 10 steps, and fell dead. Range was no more than 60 yards for any of the shots. However, I try to keep in mind that I am using a muzzleloader, and have no reason or desire to break any ballistic speed records. My standard load is 70 gr. Goex 3f behind a 405 gr PB in a T/C .50 Cal. Hawken. No bullet failures, complete pass throughs, and decent exit holes. I fail to see what improvement is needed. Heavy for caliber bullet, at reasonable velocity does the job.
As a matter of fact, this is close to the old .45-70-405 load. in my case it's a .50-70-405.

Click to expand...

That's probably the best way to use PB's. Use the big ones, and don't push them too fast.

Click to expand...

+1 If everyone followed his lead, there would be a lot less powerbelt "failures"

NTProf said:

I was talking about a hip shot, not a shoulder shot.

Click to expand...

And I totally agree that a hip shot is not a good shot, no question there. But I was responding to his comment: " It hit the hip of the elk and failed to break the hip."

Oh, thanks for the clarification, txhunter58.

The hunter that hit the elk in the hip indeed didn't shoot as well as he should have no one is going to disagree. But I can tell you for a fact that my paper patched bullets would have crushed that hip and the elk would have been retrieved there or very close to there. I was almost a mile away but I think the farmers shot was well within 100 yards. In my opinion the bullet should have broke the hip. the fact that it didn't and the elk was able to get up and run when I approached says that was a bullet failure. And yes it was a shooter failure. Sometimes sh!t happens, you just hope that the bullet your shooting is tough enough to help out when you need it to.

I have been thinking about why they don't act as we would prefer. I believe it comes down to the way oversized hollow point, a PRB in a 54 or 58 works just fine they are lead and comparable in weight to certain power points the lead in the PB's I tried was real close to the same hardness but shot into a deer or any usable test medium they literally torn apart on contact at the time I was using 100 grains of RS Pyrodex which is what I used for hunting for many years. Compared to the bullet which I poured which had a small hollow point and a weight of 340 grains they were pathetic.

The Platinum has the smallest hollow point, and they still break up. The FPB has a fairly big HP, and they hold together pretty good.

I've always thought the process of putting on the copper coating is where they mess up the lead. Nothing backing it up. Just a hunch. You'd think after all these years they would have found a cure.

I know in my experience the Power belts load easy and shoot straight. As has been mentioned, they are not particularly devastating on big game. I have never lost an animal to a power belt failure but have several hunting buddies who have. All mule deer which appeared to be lung shot. Very little blood and no recovery even though several of them dropped on impact. Hard to say for sure what happened since we did not find them.

My wife shot her first elk with a 338 gr. 50 cal. Platnum PB. 100 gr. of Pyrodex. Shot was about 20 yards head on to this bull. He came straight in to the calls. Shot hit the center of his neck right where the chocolate hair meets the creme. Bull dropped in his tracks then proceded to get up and run off. A second powerbelt through the ribs finished him off about 50 yards later. I was not incredibly impressed.



We have since switched to the 300 gr. SST's. They have performed well and shoot great.

Sounds like if I use the Powerbelts I should use heavy ones (I have 300 gr bullets) and not too much BH powder - say 90 gr sound about right? Is anyone shooting the 300 GR PB's with Blackhorn? If so, how much powder are you using?

Several folks have mentioned the Hornady FPB bullets as other options - has anyone worked up a load for the Hornady FPB 350 gr bullet using Blackhorn 209 and the Federal 209A primers?

I also am interested in hearing more about the new Federal Premium® Trophy Copper Muzzleloader Bullets - can anyone give us your opinion on these bullets and mention what loads you are using?

The new Federal bullets are getting mixed reviews. Some good results, and some bad. Very much like the PB's.

hneidere

Your Blackhorn sweet spot might be right at 100 grains. If you do a google search on "frontiergander, he's a CVA and Powerbelt guru. I found an old thread on another muzzleloader website where I found the 100 grains Blackhorn mention, using a 300 Powerbelt.

I have never used Power Belts. My first thought when I look at them is hollow point and low sectional density = large flat disc of lead and limited penetration.

I have shot the 350 FPB in two guns it is my load for states I can not use a sabot in.
Triumph 50 caliber ,90 grains of Blackhorn, 350 grain FPB, win 209Has done an excellent job on Mule and Whitetail.
Endeavor Encore 50 caliber 90 grains Blackhorn, 350 FPB, win 209 7 whitetail one bull Elk.
I have found this load to be trustworthy in these two guns in the Triumph it hold a minute of angle but the 200 yard trajectory is nothing to brag on in the Endeavor it sometimes runs up to 1.25 " which is still reason able hunting accuracy.

I have two rifles that I shoot the Hornady FPB (350). One likes 90 gr and the other likes 95 gr of BH 209.

Early in my use of muzzle loaders I used PB because they were available and easy to load. I didn't like their performance on game. With the introduction of BH 209 I realized I needed a better performing bullet. I've tried most of the major brands and several sabots. Given the variety of game available on our West Texas lease (aoudad, whitetail, axis, fallow and feral hogs) as well as shots at 150 to 200 yds I switched from Hornady's 300gr SST to Harvester's 300 gr PT Gold using 110 grs of BH 209, their Black Crush Rib sabot and Winchester's regular 209 primer. Turned out to be a great decision! One shot kills on a 30 inch aoudad ram, 19 pt WT, a Corsican ram, axis & fallow doe, 2 WT cull bucks and 2 WT does. Terminal performance was impressive.