That First Shot--Again?

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
4,929
Reaction score
3,050
This morning i had a chance to shoot the first shot from a cold clean barrel once again. Results were about the same as previously. The fifth shot was wild, but called; the eighth shot felt good, but flew high, and wide so i quit.







IMG_0020.JPG







Following is a post made to a different thread last week; it explains what i should explain.



Here lately i have been shooting about 15 shots nearly every morning. Mostly why, is to verify the second QRBP breech plug that was converted over to use rifle primers will work reliably. Each morning the shooting has begun with a cold clean barrel. Each morning the results have been quite similar. Often the first shot is the lowest shot, but not always. The target from this morning follows.





P1040173.JPG








The group including the first shot measures 1/8" larger than the group measured not including the first shot. No swabbing was done whilst shooting. The only shot fired from a cold clean barrel was the first. Similar results have been happening each of several previous mornings.

Now, i have been reading this forum for years now, and i realize some will say/think that this rifle happens to be one, that puts the first shot the same place as the following shots. Many will say/think most rifles won't put the first shot with the following shots.

Last year, before hunting season started, i was shooting two other rifles that did the same as this one. The first shot from a cold clean barrel hit close to the following shots, from the fouled barrel, without swabbing. At that time i tried all kind of tricks to try and get the first shot to group with the following shots. Things like popping primers, before loading, using special regimen, and such. In the end, all the tricks seemed fruitless, and i just resorted to shooting the first shot from a cold clean barrel.

It seems i own 3 rifles that put the first shot from a cold clean barrel into the same grouping as the following shots, without swabbing, between shots. Well, i can't help wondering why. It seems to me, most shooters oil their barrels with something. Well, i don't. My rifles are cleaned with a 2-in-1 bore cleaner, which supposedly leaves a protective coating. Whether this affects the first clean shot being in the same group as the following shots... I just don't know, but it is what i do. Me, i don't believe it is using the large rifle magnum primers, instead of shotgun primers, that has the first shot flying like the rest of the shots.
 
Nobody wants to leave 2 In 1 bore cleaner in their barrel for months..... maybe not even weeks.
I can't wait until we get some temperatures in the high 40s and I can experiment the same way with Mr. Flintlock's Lube and Cleaner. But the way temps have been here, it may be another month before I finally shoot my brand new Knight Vision, purchased way back on December 21st.
 
Good shooting and a good report on the first shot out of a cold clean barrel. Most all the time I usually fire two primers to foul the barrel and load and shoot and they all stay together. But I did try an experiment one time with one of my rifles over a three day period, first day was cold clean barrel swabbed to get oil out, second day barrel was swabbed to get oil out and shot, third day swabbed and shot, all hit the bulls eye. I haven't tried any since I started fouling the barrel with two primers ( since its supposed to not be corrosive) and loading up and shooting, I have carried the rifle loaded this way for a week or two without firing it and can' tell any ill effects. Everyone has a system that works for them. Keep up the good work I enjoy reading your posts.
 
I oil my barrels with hoppe's #9 after cleaning. I dry patch, alcohol patch, dry patch, fire 3 primers, load powder/bullet, dry patch, in prep for the range/hunting.

3 rifles (CVA Apex, Knight Elite, Traditions BuckHunter) usually print the first shot with additional shots. 2 rifles (TC Triumph, TC Impact) usually print the first shot higher than the additional shots.

My rifles with the tightest bores are also the TC's. Maybe with the first shot dry bore, the bullet/sabot is traveling a tad slower and the recoil (muzzle moving upwards) is causing my higher shots. I need lots more range time with all the rifles before I try to make any definite conclusions, right now, I am just guessing.

I did switch to Harvester sabots this year and it has been my best year for no flyers or flyers on the first shot closer to additional shots. I also started knurling all bullets and swabbing after loading (did this after loading cause primer residue made loading TMZ's much easier).

Like I said, more range time needed. I also want to try swabbing after each shot and lubing the barrel, just an itch I have to scratch.
 
Maybe you are the opposite Ron ... you get a last shot flyer :lol:

Which was your first shot, the lowest one again? Certainly wasn't a flyer, regardless of which one it was. Good shooting.
 
First shot was still in the vicinity of first shot on the previous target. Can't argue with that. :yeah:
 
ShawnT said:
First shot was still in the vicinity of first shot on the previous target. Can argue with that. :yeah:

Yep, pretty close. Can't complain there. Might want to go right a few clicks :D


Hey Shawn, stay safe up there tonight! Looks like its gonna be a good one...
 
I might tend to think the first shot being low out of a clean bore is because there is no resistance like your following shots. I'm not one to talk to about shooting fouled barrels as I don't like to/find no need, unless I have to. The first one is out quicker than the others - can you chronograph them? With being out quicker, the recoil upon the shooter/muzzle jump is less as seen in your groups.
As for oil - a Friendship shooter put me on G-96 years ago and I have no regrets.
Good Luck
 
Like BuckDoeHunter I get better consistency with Harvestor sabots than the MMPs. It seems I get an occasional flier with the MMPs. Good write up and photos.
 
WV Hunter said:
Hey Shawn, stay safe up there tonight! Looks like its gonna be a good one...

Old Frosty is going to take a big dump on us. The say 55 to 70mph winds and accumulations of up to 30" over night. :d'oh!: Sounds like Feb 2013 all over again. :roll:

No shooting here for a while. :( The Benches will be buried.
 
I was on the stand in IL two weeks ago on an anterless hunt. With the coyotes in the area I took and used my predator call a bit, just two 'verses'. After the 2nd series of tweets 2 coyotes poked out of the thick cover and came into the field edge. They sat down to reconnoiter things an honest 100 yards out. I didn't plan any more tweets to help them pinpoint my location.

It took me a bit to twist around for a shot, Knight 45 Cal Elite, 110 grn B209, 200 grn XTP in a crush rib sabot, Zeiss 3-9.

I took my time to get line up for that frontal shot, held right in the center. At the shot the coyote went right down. The bullet went in the front and out the back.

All I do is fire off two primers then hunt with an otherwise clean barrel. I don't want to foul my barrel with a shot that many be two days ahead of any shooting while hunting.
 
270g Deep Curl

This morning the battery was removed from wife' old truck... then i headed for the hills. As before the first shot was from a shiny cold clean barrel. This time the bullet of choice was the 270g Deep Curl. It was much warmer today than before, and the barrel kinda heated up faster than i like, so, after 3 shots, i took a break from shooting, to walk up to the target, and photograph it.






IMG_0024.JPG







The fourth shot was called; maybe i was breathing too much after the short walk. The fifth, and seventh shots went into the same hole as the first, and third shot. The sixth shot went into the same hole as the second shot.





IMG_0025.JPG







The eighth shot goes unexplained?? This day the rifle barrel got warmer than it ever has, since it came here.
 
ronlaughlin said:
The first shot wasn't lowest; it is the furthest left.

I could tell, just by looking at the holes in the target as to which your first shot was. It's easy to see the hole from the bullet that was shot on a clean bore. If you will notice, it will not have the blackish ring on the perimeter of the hole from the powder residue that collects on the ogive of the bullet of following shots. The sabot petals scrape this out of the grooves as the bullet goes down the barrel, depositing it onto the front of the bullet as it leaves the bore. Obviously the first shot does not have the powder residue in the bore, unless primer fouled, and that is not quite the same.

Are you indexing your sabots? That may cure the occasional flyer, but I am not sure what is going on with your diagonal stringing other that barrel heat as you said, or the rotational forces of the earth. :think:
 
Busta

I am a little surprised at the number of folks that do not 'index'. If I remember correctly you recommended this many years ago and I picked up on it right away. Still think it makes a difference...
 
Interesting that your 4th shot (or first shot again after the break) was again low - with exception of #8.
Is this a proven load or proven gun with a different load?
I know your initial question is about the first shot, but I would not think you're happy with these groups?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top