PBR (Point Blank Range) Scope Zero

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sabotloader

Keep Shooting Muzzleloaders - They are a Blast
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I have for years now especially with a ML used a system called Point Blank Range (PBR). For a muzzleloader I use a 6" PBR, meaning through a given range the bullet will never be more than 3" high or 3" low while sighting dead on or Point of Aim (POA).

Point-blank range is the distance between a weapon and a target of a given size its projectile is expected to strike without adjusting the weapon's elevation. Point-blank range will vary by a weapon's external ballistics characteristics and target chosen. A weapon with a flatter trajectory will permit a longer maximum point-blank range for a given target size, while a larger target will allow a longer point-blank range for a given weapon.

Here is a calculator I just found on the net.. and I am sure there are others

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/point-blank-range.php

In my case that means most of rifle will be about 3" high @ 100 and 3" low @ 175 to 90 depending on weight of bullet and powder charge or velocity. This little thing allows me to shoot 0 to 200 without much thought or scope adjusting.

This is a typical ballistic sheet on one of my loads with the PBR built in..

Lehigh-452-265-CF-HP.jpg


The chart shows my actual zero range is 160 yards and I can shoot to 196 yards and be 3" LOW. You can also the expected Point of Impact -POI at other ranges on the sheet

Hope this makes some sense...
 
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I ran a conical through that sight... and it had some surprising figures. Now do you run that sight in through a ballistic calculator to see how it will react?
 
Ive read about this technique and immediately this thought comes to mind . For most 50 cal ml shooters a 4" group is pretty good at 200 yds .= 2moa
And whitetail vitals are on average10" top to bottom.=5moa
So dead center hold and 3" low poi at 200 yds plus 2"moa accuracy your now at 5 moa. If point of aim is perfect center mass ..
If using pbr method please account for point of impact when settling crosshairs on game and pulling trigger .
Pbr method doesn't mean0-200 yds aim center mass and shoot.
 
cayuga said:
I ran a conical through that sight... and it had some surprising figures. Now do you run that sight in through a ballistic calculator to see how it will react?

Dave, what I do is get the actual FPS from the rifle and the computed BC, the elevation and crunch the numbers in the calculator. From there back to the range and shoot some of the ranges to verify what the numbers are saying.

The one thing I would throw a caution out there on is - the whole thing is not perfect you need to make some of the shots to verify. Then while hunting you will need to check climatic conditions to a certain extent. Nothing replaces experience with the load and rifle.
 
bestill said:
Ive read about this technique and immediately this thought comes to mind . For most 50 cal ml shooters a 4" group is pretty good at 200 yds .= 2moa
And whitetail vitals are on average10" top to bottom.=5moa
So dead center hold and 3" low poi at 200 yds plus 2"moa accuracy your now at 5 moa. If point of aim is perfect center mass ..
If using pbr method please account for point of impact when settling crosshairs on game and pulling trigger .
Pbr method doesn't mean0-200 yds aim center mass and shoot.


And I would add a dead center hold @ 100 might present the same challenge (less climatic conditions). Nothing replaces the actual shooting of the distances and making a slight POA change at the high/low end of two extremes.

Also those people with ballistic reticule scopes it is a very easy adjustment 'with practice and confirmation'. Still in my mind easier than dialing in adjustments while HUNTING.
 
I have a buddy that does the PBR deal, his 30-06 is supposed to be on from 0 to 350 yards or some deal. The last 4 elk he shot were all shot high through the top of the shoulders. For myself I prefer to sight in my rifles at 100 yards and use my head when I need to shoot farther instead of not really knowing where my bullet will impact.
 
This method is extremely helpful provided the shooter does realize the maximum range in this case 200 yds and not 250 or more. If the maximum range is wrong you miss or wound the animal.

Also the shooter must take into account wind drift. At lower FPS the drift can be significant even in a 300 gr bullet.

Of course these comments are basic for most experience shooters, it is the novice I am really wanting to point this out to.

Hope this is helpful and results in the dandy on the wall we all want.

martin loader
 
I use the 3" high at a 100 method although I have seen it as MPBR. I have had good success using it. I usually make a minor adjustment. My zero is about 175yrds with my load. Only aim center mass near my zero.
 
Good info, here is a little more info with respect to a 100 yard zero.
 

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sabotloader said:
This is a typical ballistic sheet on one of my loads with the PBR built in..


The chart shows my actual zero range is 160 yards and I can shoot to 196 yards and be 3" LOW. You can also the expected Point of Impact -POI at other ranges on the sheet

Hope this makes some sense...

Where is this chart from? I is this an online program or a downloaded software or something?
 

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zach.trumble said:
sabotloader said:
This is a typical ballistic sheet on one of my loads with the PBR built in..

Lehigh_452-265_CF-HP.jpg


The chart shows my actual zero range is 160 yards and I can shoot to 196 yards and be 3" LOW. You can also the expected Point of Impact -POI at other ranges on the sheet

Hope this makes some sense...

Where is this chart from? I is this an online program or a downloaded software or something?

The Barnes Ballistic program is a an old program offered by Barnes several years ago. It is so old that it will not run on a modern windows computer. I have an old XP machine I installed it on years ago and now the only time that machine gets turned is to run the program.

The PBR formula that I use is only a part of the whole plan. Since the are I hunt - I am not going to take a shot much greater than 200 yards. So you can see the 3" PBR works very well for in those ranges...

The next part of the equation is the scope reticule. This particular scope is a 3x9 Redfield Revenge with a ballistic reticule + range finder built in. The reticule looks like this....

Revenge_Accu-_Ranger_Reticule.jpg

REDFIELD-Revenge-3-9x42-Riflescope-Accu-Ranger-S.jpg


With the scope power ring set to 9X and Repeated practice - range shooting - has shown me what I can do with each mark on the reticule at given ranges... Using this system I can shoot to 250 yards with a lot of confidence. The problem in all of this the 'mother nature' and her winds, even the lay of the land can land can affect trajectory. The longer the range the greater the effect.

With all of this I would tell you I am a hunter - not a long range shooter.
 
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zach.trumble said:
sabotloader said:
This is a typical ballistic sheet on one of my loads with the PBR built in..

Lehigh_452-265_CF-HP.jpg


The chart shows my actual zero range is 160 yards and I can shoot to 196 yards and be 3" LOW. You can also the expected Point of Impact -POI at other ranges on the sheet

Hope this makes some sense...

Where is this chart from? I is this an online program or a downloaded software or something?

It is a program I have on the computer. Barnes had it online for years... but it is not availabable for the new Windows systems.

It is typical program where you plug in the needed and then the computer generates the sheet.
 
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I have four or five different rifles that I hunt with I guess I'm a little scattered, cuz to be honest with you I have slightly different zeros on each gun,,I like to keep my CVA mountain rifle 50 cal dead on because I hunt in a lot of thick cover with it, I slip through the river bottom thicket's, I might get a shot 40 or 50 yards and it then again might be a 150 or 200, I rely on my reticle if it's further,my new long-range CVA 45 Cal 22 twist I keep 3 inches high and I shoot 40 cal Pittman 225 grains,I haven't shot that rifle out to 300 yet I,,fixing to the next couple of weeks, I really think you're zero needs to be gun specific and scope specific and in some sense Hunter specific, oh yes and practice practice practice
 
I use shooterscalculator.com and adjust the sight-in distance to get the PBR that I need. For javelina, I sight in at 50 yards. With my ML for elk, I sight in at 150 meters. I can put the top of the post (duplex reticle) on the back of an elk at 220 yards, and drop them in their tracks with a 405 gr. .458 bullet. If I'm close, I can aim low, but why would I? 3" high is a great shot on elk. I prefer than to a heart shot. I shoot a lot before the season, so I know what I can hit and how to aim. I shoot in the wind, so I know how much a little wind moves a big slow bullet.
 
I have used the PBR method on all rifles for years. But of coarse use the' "Intelligent" method as previously mentioned. Still have a drop chart on the stock of the gun. The idea is to still be aiming on the body of the animal at a wider range of distances then if you just sighted in at 100, but not necessarily the center of the body. I find it is a good system to get a good shot off quickly and accurately if you know your rifles drop even with the PBR.
I hunt with the turret-turning guys and must say I am rolling my eyes at the time it takes to get a shot and their constant need to know exact yardage.
"How far is he? "
"410 yards!." Deer moves around a little.
"How far is he now?
"422 yards!" A minute later which seems like a half hour. POW !
"YOU MISSED TWO FEET LOW."
"DARN HAD MY SCOPE ONLY ON 10 POWER"
 
"410 yards!." Deer moves around a little.
"How far is he now?
"422 yards!" A minute later which seems like a half hour. POW !
"YOU MISSED TWO FEET LOW."
"DARN HAD MY SCOPE ONLY ON 10 POWER"
I see the archers on TV ranging a deer quit often. Really??? My first thought is they aren't familiar with their bow like they need to be. But mostly they are trying to sell a range finder.

Am I wrong thinking that a practiced archer has no use for a rangefinder. Im thinking any practiced archer can determine the distance to a target accurately enough so they will not miss. Excluding the deer jumping the string.
 
I see the archers on TV ranging a deer quit often. Really??? My first thought is they aren't familiar with their bow like they need to be. But mostly they are trying to sell a range finder.

Am I wrong thinking that a practiced archer has no use for a rangefinder. Im thinking any practiced archer can determine the distance to a target accurately enough so they will not miss. Excluding the deer jumping the string.
Bowhunting from a stand that ive hunted before ive ranged everthing a 1000 times and know the ranges by heart. But if im in a new stand or a buddies stand, i take my rangefinder and check everything. In that second when you get to take the shot it sure helps to already know that distance without having to guess. But the more i do it the better i get at guesstimating the distances. Im also doing it for ML hunting but i dont range as many things, just enough to establish a perimeter? that Im comfortable shooting to, stuff thats within PBR.
 
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