Is your gun most accurate with clean or fouled barrel?

Is your muzzleloader shooting tighter groups using a clean barrel everyshot, or with a fouled barrel? Im not leaving it dirty, but ws considering running a dry patch, and then firing 1 primer before loading the next. Just wondering what the trend is. Thanks!

fouled for sure .

What powder and charge size?

Fouled all the way.

Do a search on First Shot Flyers and you will finds a ton on this topic.

johndeere506 said:

Is your muzzleloader shooting tighter groups using a clean barrel everyshot, or with a fouled barrel? Im not leaving it dirty, but ws considering running a dry patch, and then firing 1 primer before loading the next. Just wondering what the trend is. Thanks!

Click to expand...

There might be a POI change between the first shot and the rest of the following shots but I wouldn't think there'd be much difference between a group of "clean shots" every time versus a group after the first shot. My ML gets loaded on November 14th and could stay loaded (and kept outside) until January - like you, I'm not leaving a fouled barrel sit that long.

Long ago I read where bench shooters spray a patch with Lock-Ease and swab the clean bore with that before heading to the range. The solvent dries out and just leaves the graphite behind which simulates a fouled barrel. I've been doing this for awhile and haven't noticed a change in POI for the first shot, but I'll be sighting in my new scope soon so I take notice to see what happens again.

I can't really say except I shoot out of a fouled barrel as it is consistent and I do not have to clean between shots but then I have a smokeless ML.

Fouled barrel for sure. That is swabbing between shots of course. Although with BlackHorn 209 the more foul the barrel is the better the accuracy seems to be. Triple Seven, foul is better but swab between shots. Also the kind of projectile you shoot can and does make a difference. In my White rifles for instance, a foul bore and conical after conical, no swabbing, produces excellent accuracy. Then it seems to suddenly hit a point where you need to swab.

Fouled with 3 primers before first load.

I dry patch the bore after firing three primers. But the main, most important thing I do is make sure all oils are removed first. That's wet-patching with 91% alcohol, before I leave my house.

My first shot average 3-4" difference than my 2nd shot and following shots. Most times that 1st shot goes 10:30ish from the bullseye. I have not experienced any flyers with Blackhorn yet. So I like it's consistency aspect.

ShawnT said:

Fouled with 3 primers before first load.

Click to expand...

How far up the bore does the 3 primers reach? And is that with 209 primers or #11 caps? Thanks.

Mine shoots fine with a clean bore. It's a hunting gun, and I don't need 1/2" groups.

tpcollins said:

ShawnT said:

Fouled with 3 primers before first load.

Click to expand...

How far up the bore does the 3 primers reach? And is that with 209 primers or #11 caps? Thanks.

Click to expand...

I do this with Caps, LRMP and 209. Normally I Dry patch the bore, both sides first. Then put a new patch on the Jag and run that down to the Breech plug leave it there and pop a Primer. Then push back down to BP and remove it spreading the fouling. I do that 3 times. You should see it burn the patch on the face of the Jag, which is a good visual that the BP is clear. For your first question, not real sure and it also depends on the Cap/Primer type. In my KRB7 that is modified, the Rem STS 209 will push the rod about 6" up the bore, The MK-95's with LRMP about 3" or so. The #11 mag cap in the MK-85 not that far.

ShawnT said:

tpcollins said:

ShawnT said:

Fouled with 3 primers before first load.

Click to expand...

How far up the bore does the 3 primers reach? And is that with 209 primers or #11 caps? Thanks.

Click to expand...

I do this with Caps, LRMP and 209. Normally I Dry patch the bore, both sides first. Then put a new patch on the Jag and run that down to the Breech plug leave it there and pop a Primer. Then push back down to BP and remove it spreading the fouling. I do that 3 times. You should see it burn the patch on the face of the Jag, which is a good visual that the BP is clear. For your first question, not real sure and it also depends on the Cap/Primer type. In my KRB7 that is modified, the Rem STS 209 will push the rod about 6" up the bore, The MK-95's with LRMP about 3" or so. The #11 mag cap in the MK-85 not that far.

Click to expand...

Seems like that method would allow for buildup in the flash channel (not flash hole), and I recall removing my QT plug and using an 1/8" drill bit to scrape it out every 5-6 shots or so, along with a pick for the flash hole. There's usually a considerable amount of crud in it by then, so if you're firing 3 primers, then you're loading the rifle and hunting with the 4th primer in the BP and a dirty flash channel? Thanks.

I would need to experiment with placing a jag-patch against the flash hole when firing three primers. It would seem to clog-up the plug faster. But what I suppose may not be a good idea for 20 shots at the range, may be a good idea for hunting woods, where only a few shots are fired on my hunting trips.

tpcollins said:

Seems like that method would allow for buildup in the flash channel (not flash hole), and I recall removing my QT plug and using an 1/8" drill bit to scrape it out every 5-6 shots or so, along with a pick for the flash hole. There's usually a considerable amount of crud in it by then, so if you're firing 3 primers, then you're loading the rifle and hunting with the 4th primer in the BP and a dirty flash channel? Thanks.

Click to expand...

I may have miss understood the OP's purpose of his post. I assumed he was referring to the First shot on target or for hunting.

I was talking prepping the clean rifle for the first shot, not after shooting 5 or 6 shots. The Carbon build up I have seen in my rifles is only when shooting BH. I am not shooting squibs or even full charge loads like some do. The Patch on the rod don't let it build up that much pressure. If it did the rod would leave the bore but does not. I don't see that much Fouling in the Flash channel when just popping primers this way in my rifles. The Patch on the rod does not generate the Blow back that shooting a load of BH does. It is really for 2 purposes, first to make sure anything left in the plug is Dried out and second a visual indicator that the Flame is reaching the Powder. This was a procedure in a video that was supplied by Knight when I got my MK-95. Been doing it for about 17 years, works ok for me.

along with a pick for the flash hole.

Click to expand...

I never touch the Flash hole with anything metal except when occasionally checking to see if it is worn. Just flush/blow it out.

There's usually a considerable amount of crud in it by then, so if you're firing 3 primers, then you're loading the rifle and hunting with the 4th primer in the BP and a dirty flash channel?

Click to expand...

I see this as only partly correct. Yes I am shooting first target round or First Hunting Round on the 4th primer. Some like to shoot Squib loads or even shoot a full load the day before hunting. Those will cause some build up in the Flash channel. This (popping only primers) would have much less fouling in the BP than shooting a load to foul. I don't believe that the Primer fouling builds up like when shooting BH at least it has not for me. I believe that the Build up your thinking about is a product of both Primer AND fouling (Ash) from BH 209, not just the primer. I never saw that hard carbon build up in the KRB when I shot some Pyrodex or 777. The only time I did clean the KRB Flash channel that often was when I was first working on Modifying the action and shooting BH. I now only scrap it about every 10 shots at the range. The MK-95 is a totally different set up for the Flash channel, it don't get scrapped/cleaned the entire range session, only when cleaning at the end.

Do you pop any primers prior to loading your First shot?

I guess we all have our ways, huh? :wink:

TripleSe7en said:

I would need to experiment with placing a jag-patch against the flash hole when firing three primers. It would seem to clog-up the plug faster. But what I suppose may not be a good idea for 20 shots at the range, may be a good idea for hunting woods, where only a few shots are fired on my hunting trips.

Click to expand...

This was not a procedure I came up with but one that used to be in Tony Knight's Videos, at lease the one that came with my MK-95 (My first Inline). I unfortunately lost that VHS tape long ago in a move. It also showed a guy load the rifle and walk down into a Pond over his head with the rifle, then walk back out and empty the water out of the bore and take a shot. 8) It does not clog up the BP in any way. If it does, it would be not from the primer but because of over lubing the Plug or bore (Ran down into the plug). Most pop a cap or 2 just to dry the BP area out, I was taught that with side locks 30+ years ago. This serves the same purpose but lets you spread the fouling in the bore around as you remove the patch, Plus gives a visual indicator that the Flame reaches the Powder area (Burned Patch). Try it and see if you get any clogging or build up. Not saying anyone "Has to do it" just that it works for me. :wink:

Fouled, but the point of impact is usually negligible if I prep the gun first. I swab with solvent to get oil out of barrel, then dry patch, then fire a couple primers. Even out of an oiled barrel, the difference isn't too bad depending on the load. With most of my guns, the harder you are pushing, the greater the difference.

I always swab my bores clean & dry prior to shooting. I've always fired 2 primes prior to loading, which will blow anything from the flash hole. Until I bought the Ultimate, I've never owned a rifle that the first shot hit the same POI as the following shots. I've changed lubes, used windex, alcohol and all the other concoctions, and rather I was cursed or what, I hunted with a fouled barrel, as I never know how far my first shot may be. I've fouled with 2 shots using BH and left the rifle loaded for a month, with zero (0) problems. If it rained heavily or I fell in a creek, I would just shoot the round and reload. Never take it from the cold to warmth.

I actually shot the following target from my last Pro Hunter, specifically to show how the rifle shot clean to fouled. I would suggest you do what you feel is best for your rifle............ results vary :wink:

That's interesting Shawn.

My V2 and my older MR loved a fouled barrel. First shot out of a clean barrel for both rifles was always a few inches left and a few inches high. Close to the edge of the 10 ring. Haven't checked my new MR yet mainly because I've gotten into the habit of firing off 2 or 3 primers before I start to shoot.

Ray........... :yeah: