Youth Hunting Loads CVA Optima Blackhorn 209

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forrest-hunter

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Have both ribbed and regular Harvester sabots - jhp 44 bullets in 180 and 240 - jhp 45 bullets in 240 and some 300 gr (used in 45-70) - 'am a reloader for 44 mag, 45 acp and 45 colt so have a variety of bullets on hand - need hunting load data for my grandson who is 10 - hogs and deer size game - also have available hard lead bullets in both calibers - plan on using Blackhorn 209 - thinking that 90 gr by volume should be an all around good load for him
 
Me, i would start at 70g powder, and one of your lighter weight bullets. Conceivably, 80g may be the load for this year. Nothing worse than too heavy of a load for a youngster. Our son was started with light recoil, then went heavy on his own, and that seemed to work good. In an Optima, my guess is the regular sabot will be better than the crush rib. Never hunted hogs myself, but it seems a magnum bullet would be good.
 
I agree with Ron. Heck you could even start at 60gr...and 180's, there would be very little recoil, and it would give him a chance to get used to the rifle and very comfortable. Then gradually move to a bigger bullet/heavier load, a little at a time. That is what I did when I started my son at 11, but I started using 240/250's with it and light loads. Gradually moved up to full loads over a few years. Its surprising what the young kids can handle, once they know how to handle the rifle. As a first year I'd probably have a goal of him getting to 70gr powder, and a quality 240gr bullet for a hunting load. That should be pretty easy to work up to.

Good luck :D
 
forrest-hunter said:
......... plan on using Blackhorn 209 - thinking that 90 gr by volume should be an all around good load for him

I would start the 10 year-old off with 70 grains BH and that 180 gr bullet. Maybe even start & finish right there.
 
CVA guns used to have a nice soft recoil pad. 2-3 years ago they switched to a hard recoil pad, and that is much harder hitting. If you have one of the hard pads you might consider putting a Sims or KICK-EEZ pad on it.
 
Forrest..I would do as other said....start at 70 grains of 209 and let him shoot that a bit and then work up to see where his comfort zone is....and start with a 180 grain bullet and also work up...you dont want him to get recoil shy...

Good luck ..and its great your getting your grand son into the shooting sport...and you being there for his first kill will so rewarding ..for both
 
Before replacing the Buckhorn for our Hunters Ed Class we were loading 60 & 70 gr. of Pyro, with 180-200 gr. bullets, very accurate.
 
My favorite bullet for this task is the Barnes 45LC 225gr XPB. Its one of the least expensive Barnes and designed to expand at 45LC speeds.
 
Have decided on 80 gr by volume and 180 gr jhp - he shot his first deer last year with a 243 - has also shot a 30-30 with normal load so this load should be perfect. Will sight rifle in for him the next few weeks and have him shoot it before his blackbuck doe hunt in June. Will keep this load for deer season this fall unless he wants to go a little heavier - will then go to 90gr and 225 barnes bullet - thanks for all the suggestions
 
What is his limit on distance?

My son took his first doe at 30 yds with a 50yd limit using 60 grs of Bh209 and a 250gr Barnes TMZ. Large doe, complete pass thru. His second large doe this year was a little over a hundred yds with the same bullet and 70 gr BH209, no passthru, bullet recovered just under the hide on the offside, DRT. Next year will be 80gr BH209 and is good for 100-approx. 130yds.
 
forrest-hunter said:
Have decided on 80 gr by volume and 180 gr jhp - he shot his first deer last year with a 243 - has also shot a 30-30 with normal load so this load should be perfect. Will sight rifle in for him the next few weeks and have him shoot it before his blackbuck doe hunt in June. Will keep this load for deer season this fall unless he wants to go a little heavier - will then go to 90gr and 225 barnes bullet - thanks for all the suggestions

80gr BH powder with 180gr bullet will have a little more felt recoil than a 243. 80 and 180 combo with Blachorn has been my load for April and May at 50 yards. Had you started him on 80 gr Pyro RS FF, then the felt recoil would have been closer to the same. Blackhorn recoil (per volume comparisons and snug sabot/bullet) is higher than Goex FF real black, or other substitute powders..... even 777..... in my felt opinion.

Now if the sabot/bullet is loaded loose, then the felt recoil with Blackhorn will feel softer. It gets even stouter at 80 grains, if you add 80 grains of Cornmeal between the powder and bullet. Then it feels like shooting 120 grains and whacks me pretty good, even with a 180 gr bullet.
 
GM54-120 said:
Anytime you increase total ejecta weight, felt and actual recoil increases. It does not matter if its cornmeal, powder, a sabot or lead.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp


That is not necessarily true.
For instance: When using the 460 No Excuse conical in my Omega, then a 200 grain 50/40 SST, along with Blackhorn 80 gr, I get more felt recoil with the 200 grainer versus the 460 grainer.

Why?...... that's the world of Blackhorn and how the powder pressure fizzles, when the bullet is not sealing the bore walls.
Same with my 180 grain Precision Polymer Tip sabot/bullets versus my much-much heavier Buffalo SSBs, that sound like the firing of a Federal 209 primer-only when ignited.

Blackhorn is a different animal and it only took me two visits to the range to figure that out. And besides the expensive pricing on it, it probably explains another reason why a couple of knowledgeable posters here don't use this so-called latest & greatest powder. Blackhorn certainly requires more field testing than all the others, where long-range targets are displayed. Why?.... because I must see first-hand what that same bullet does at 50 - then 100 - then -150.....etc....etc. That powder could lose energy at a blink of an eye. Where real black, Pyrodex, 777... etc..... will lose energy more-so in real-world increments.

I found out early-on that bore seal means e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g with it.
 
Here is a simple way to compare recoil with two different bullets when using the same powder charge. Multiply the weight of the bullet times the muzzle velocity, and compare the products.

For example: Compare recoil between a 464g No Excuse, and a 200g Shockwave when both are ignited by 80g Blackhorn. The Shockwave has a muzzle velocity of about 1700fps. The No Excuse has a muzzle velocity of about 1300fps.

200 times 1700 = 340,000

464 times 1300 = 603,200

Thus one sees the recoil of the No Excuse bullet is 1.77 times more than the recoil of the Shockwave.
 
That's not the same as felt recoil Ron. Varying degrees of bore pressure with Blackhorn's effect on sabot/bullet seating/bore wall contact, can produce upside down./inside-out readings.

Blackhorn is a strange powder, in comparison to all those of the past. Just when I thought I reached the end of it's craziness, that thread on electromagnetic-type powder tube stickiness opens up another can of W.T.F, concerning Blackhorn.
 
Dunno about all those BH tight bullet rules. Unless that Mountaineer .32 is a conundrum unto itself. It shoots BH without a hitch with a patched roundball, maxi, or ball-et with or without an overpowder wad. Maybe its the small charges, maybe its the Knight breech plug. I dont seem to have any problem at all with ignition
 
TripleSe7en said:
That's not the same as felt recoil Ron. Varying degrees of bore pressure with Blackhorn's effect on sabot/bullet seating/bore wall contact, can produce upside down./inside-out readings.

Blackhorn is a strange powder, in comparison to all those of the past. Just when I thought I reached the end of it's craziness, that thread on electromagnetic-type powder tube stickiness opens up another can of W.T.F, concerning Blackhorn.

My, what a vivid imagination you have.
 
My 45 sends a 460gr out of the muzzle at 1400fps+ with 80gr of BH209 (56gr by weight). Thats from my chrony and not just an estimate. Ive used 1 and 2 veggie wads, 1 wool wad and a combination of 1 veggie/1 wool.

Plug the numbers into any recoil calculator. There are several online including JBM Ballistics. When recoil impulse, recoil energy and recoil velocity all increase, it will certainly FEEL like it kicks more too in the same rifle. In my 45cal that load FEELS like it recoils much harder than any recommended BH209 load ive shot with a 200gr sabotted bullet.
 
Scott,

Is it possible the reason the 460g bullet 'feels' like more recoil than the 200g bullet, is because it really is? Yes, of course, of course!
 
Squeeze said:
Dunno about all those BH tight bullet rules. Unless that Mountaineer .32 is a conundrum unto itself. It shoots BH without a hitch with a patched roundball, maxi, or ball-et with or without an overpowder wad. Maybe its the small charges, maybe its the Knight breech plug. I dont seem to have any problem at all with ignition

Well of course; you know what you are doing.
 

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