New Powders for easy cleaning

Ok, thanks to all for the help...I've selected my new Muzzle loader...Knight Light Weight with green stock, and bare 209 primer breech plug. Thanks, I was headed down the wrong path so I' glad I asked and so many people steered my this way.

My next question is...powders, and cleaning?

I've been out of muzzle loader hunting for a few years, but hunted many years with my old TC Black Diamond. I always used Pyrodex pellets, and my cleaning regimen was not fun. Swabbing with that white TC bore cleaning liquid, followed up with boiling hot water and dawn, then clean hot water, and then "bore butter" as soon as it was dry but still hot. From what I hear, new powders are out and are much cleaner these days. Is that Triple 7 pellets? Or something else? How about bore cleaner? I use ballistol on all my rifles and pistols. Are the new guns and powders just like cleaning a smokeless modern rifle? I tried a few searches but cant seem to find the answers....I apologize ahead of time if this topic has been beaten to death.

We call 777 crud-ring because it leaves a horrible hard ring for most of us and you have to clean it out every shot to get the bullet seated on the powder right. Now there are some people that live in the mountains that do not have the problem but I believe the majority do. Some of us use Blackhorn 209 :yeah: as you can shoot all day with out cleaning and cleaning is a breeze with regular cleaners like Hoppes #9 or better yet Hoppes Elite.
The draw back to Blackhorn that bothers some is the price I pay 30 dollars if I buy a 10 oz. can but mostly I buy 5 pound jugs from Powder Valley inc. for 217 +hazmat.

Great choice! :yeah: :yeah:

I would use BH209, W209 primers, wrap the BP with tape, and you should have almost or totally blowback free ignition.
Clean with whatever you use to clean your centerfire rifles - such as Hoppe's, etc. No water or black powder type solvents.
You don't have to swab between shots with BH209, which is very nice if you are shooting a range session for sure.

One thing that was suggested to me (as I am fairly new to this powder) is after you are done shooting to take a dry patch and push it through from the breech end out of the barrel and most of the fouling will fall right out, then clean as you would. Just makes alot less to clean.

There is a ton of info on BH209 on this website, spend some time searching and reading in addition to what folks post here. Lots of great info.

Thanks, ....What sort of tape would you wrap the breech plug with? That white plumbers type of tape to stop leaks? That all sounds great, I'll look into BH209....I know I've seen it around here. I'll do some reading, including what to use for a starting load.

Yes BH209 is cleaner as in less fouling and no crud ring. Pushing a dry patch all the way through the bore before using a solvent can greatly speed up the cleanup process. Use whatever center fire solvent you prefer with BH209.

MJFlores said:

Thanks, ....What sort of tape would you wrap the breech plug with? That white plumbers type of tape to stop leaks? That all sounds great, I'll look into BH209....I know I've seen it around here. I'll do some reading, including what to use for a starting load.

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Yep, I've actually used white or pink tape, no difference that I can see. Go with the threads, not against them. They even sell it in the sporting goods stores now, though it probably costs more because they call it "breechplug tape".
Starting loads... I'd say most folks end up using around 100gr-110gr by volume of BH209. Some like a bit heavier. It really depends like any load, as to what shoots best for that particular bullet and rifle, and what you are hunting, distance, etc.

Lee 9 said:

We call 777 crud-ring because it leaves a horrible hard ring for most of us and you have to clean it out every shot to get the bullet seated on the powder right. Now there are some people that live in the mountains that do not have the problem but I believe the majority do. Some of us use Blackhorn 209 :yeah: as you can shoot all day with out cleaning and cleaning is a breeze with regular cleaners like Hoppes #9 or better yet Hoppes Elite.
The draw back to Blackhorn that bothers some is the price I pay 30 dollars if I buy a 10 oz. can but mostly I buy 5 pound jugs from Powder Valley inc. for 217 +hazmat.

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What does living in the mountains have to do with a crud ring??

My White rifles don't get the crud ring with triple seven. Tighter bores like Knight, T/C, Tradtiions, CVA, etc. do get the crud ring because of their tighter bores. I agree with everything else said. I do recommend BH209 in the tighter bore rifles/pistols, for like said reasons.

Maybe Sabotloader could explain it better, I know he lives fairly high and likes 777. I know no one around here at 400 to 600 feet above sea level can use it with out the problem. We have speculated for years on the why and where for of it with out any success that I know of.

I live at 850 feet and get the crud ring with 777 on most of my inline muzzleloaders, with saboted bullets. That's why I use Swiss, and Pyrodex.

I refuse to pay the high cost of Blackhorn.

Landngroove said:

I live at 850 feet and get the crud ring with 777 on most of my inline muzzleloaders, with saboted bullets. That's why I use Swiss, and Pyrodex.

I refuse to pay the high cost of Blackhorn.

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I quit Blackhorn for the same reason. Pyrodez is 19.95 for 16 ounces, versus $35 for 10 ounces of Blackhorn. I also use Goex / 16 ounces at $24.

What I disliked most about Blackhorn was the irregular / inconsistent burn rates with a couple high inventory loose-fitting bullets I have. Now prefer using Pyrodex/real blackpowder with volumes at/below 100 grains.

I would try Swiss 2F or 3F powder. The people at Dixon's ML store feel Swiss is the best bp today.

Olde Enysford seems to be a very nice option for those that like Swiss performance without the Swiss price tag. Its about the same price as Pyrodex here. $17.99/lb

Lee 9 said:

Maybe Sabotloader could explain it better, I know he lives fairly high and likes 777. I know no one around here at 400 to 600 feet above sea level can use it with out the problem. We have speculated for years on the why and where for of it with out any success that I know of.

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I was thinking areas that had high humidity levels like most southern states. Here in Virginia we get humidity, but nothing like say the Carolina's or Florida. I live in the western valley and humidity runs sometimes 65-above 70%, I have a hard time on those days...but then again no problems with T7 in the Whites. Just load an shoot all day long, same loads in the CVA Optima V2 pistol I get the crud ring, which leaves me to believe its the tighter bores. No problem with BH209 in the CVA, just T7.

Let your gun, target and a chronograph talk to you. 777 should get close to Blackhorn 209, pyrodex will lag a fair amount. Some of the others can be downright pathetic.

My main goal is to be setup for the handful of shots I take out hunting. A little more cost for B209 won't add up to much with a few shots.

The cost per ounce comparison to Pyrodex or Goex is more than a just little bit more. I suppose the cost could be considered just a little more if the purchaser earns a good living, or he only shoots one jug per year - or he's comparing the cost to more expensive 777.

Some of us aren't in this sport to reach the highest bullet speeds, or must have the latest and greatest military or all-copper bullets. Personally speaking, I used an entire jug of Blackhorn in two range visits. I do not find Blackhorn to be worth $3.50 an ounce. But it does clean very easy........ 4-6 patches is all I used both times and that includes gun oil.

I will miss that part of it, along with it's reuse abilities after absorbing moisture - along with it's retention to moisture capabilites. What I won;t miss is it's burn inconsistency and sensitivity moments, when addressing different bullets/sizes and different cleaners/oils. The breechplug powder crustiness did not sway in my decision to withdrawl from using it.

where is all these Blackhorn inconsistencies? I regularly shoot BH in several different calibers, over a chrono, and I havent seen these inconsistencies. If anything, Its LESS inconsistent. No fine shake at the bottom of the bottle

I hunt elk with 90-95 gr of BH 209. It averages around 15-18% more velocity than pyrodex or real black powder in a volume to volume comparison.

I have to agree with squeeze. I haven't noticed any inconsistencies with bh either. Yesterday I took out my new Optima and had trouble with a loose fit. 300 scorpion black crushed rib 110 grns bh. After four shots only got partial burn. Switched to Barnes 290 tmz with yellow crushed rib. No more problems. Chronograph for me has shown good consistency with black horn. I think there can be problems with a loose fit with any powder.

I shoot both T7 and BH 209. 4 guns shoot BH and 3 guns shoot...all Knights.

The thing I like about BH is not having to swab between shoots, easy to clean, same velocity with less powder. Not sure exactly what that conversion would be, but in two of the guns 80 gr of BH gives me the same point of impact at 100 yds. as does 90 gr. of T7. Cost doesn't bother me, but that's because I get a $25 gift card in the mail every 2 months from my Scheel's Visa card. So every 4 months or so, I go to Scheels and get another jug of BH and some incidentals.

As for T7, ya, I have gotten a nasty crud ring with pellets in the past, but not so much with powder. With powder, I use 1-1-1 alcohol/peroxide/Murpy's Oil Soap. I have some in a spray bottle. Spray it in the barrel and scrub with bore brush. 5 or 6 patches later, done. Great on breech plugs too.

The only 2 complaints I have about BH209 are cost and it is a little more particular about bullet fit. Now it's possible that things have changed a little in the last couple years since I've shot it. Cost, well, it's what it is. It's expensive, and if I was actually able to shoot as much as I wanted to shoot, things would be different and I would probably have to shoot Pyrodex or T7. But for a couple bottles a year, the cost is bearable. As for bullet fit, I don't know how many times I had misfires starting out. Some of the super easy to load bullet/sabot combos that would ignite with Pyrodex would do a thing with BH209. So just keep in mind you have to have a moderately tight fit to seal everything up for BH209. Outside of that, if you're looking for ease of use and cleaning, BH209 is the way to go.