Surprise at the range

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Dutch

Well-Known Member
*
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
473
Reaction score
5
I bought a Knight Ultralite this past summer. I have been very impressed with the rifle. I have enjoyed shooting it. However I had a 1x scope mounted on it through this hunting season. While the scope is needed for my aging eyes, I have not been happy with the accuracy. I needed more magnification! My lovely wife purchased a Sightron 3x9 scope for me for Christmas (she had a little prompting from me!)



Today was my first trip to the range with the new scope mounted.

I have always used around 100 gr. equivalent loads. This always seemed to be enough. I get decent accuracy with these loads. I have shot all my ML deer with a 100 gr. load. Today I was using a 300 gr. .429 XTP with 100 gr. of T7 2F. I was getting groups like this one.



After reading some very interesting topics here lately, I decided to try heavier loads. I tried 120 gr. of the 2F T7. I ended up getting similar sized groups to the one above. Then I decided to up the load to 130 gr. The result is below.



The group measures 3/4 inches. Needless to say I am pleased. However I am a little perplexed why the heavy load is so much more accurate. In any case, I think I have found my perfect load for this rifle.
 
It's nothing new by any means. The Extreme/Elites are the same way. The Knight bolt guns just hook up at 130grns by volume of powder. I think the extra pressure allows the bullet/sabot combination to engrave the rifling better for better accuracy. That's just my opinion on that.

And by the way, excellent shooting.

What size game are you hunting? You sure don't need a 300grn bullet to kill Deer, Unless it's a poorly designed bullet.
 
Good stuff Dutch! :yeah: Is that a Big Sky? I am a Sightron fan also...they make really good stuff.
Do you plan to try BH209? Are you shooting bare primer?

Grouse, truthfully I have never shot over 110gr BH in any of my knights yet. The shooting I've done at 100 and 110 have given me excellent groups (sub MOA) so I didn't feel the need to go up. (This was in a .45 elite, and .50 elite)

Maybe I'll have to up the loads a hair this spring just to see. :mrgreen:
 
Grouse said:
It's nothing new by any means. The Extreme/Elites are the same way. The Knight bolt guns just hook up at 130grns by volume of powder. I think the extra pressure allows the bullet/sabot combination to engrave the rifling better for better accuracy. That's just my opinion on that.

And by the way, excellent shooting.

What size game are you hunting? You sure don't need a 300grn bullet to kill Deer, Unless it's a poorly designed bullet.

Grouse, I believe it was one of your recent posts that made me give it a try. I really don't know the mechanism for this "sweet spot", but I am not complaining.

I should also note that I do get a little leakage around the primer with this rifle. I will follow Sabot Loader's instruction and shim the plug soon. However I did notice with the heavier loads that there did seem to be a little less blow by. Maybe its my imagination, but it seemed that way to me.
 
WV Hunter said:
Good stuff Dutch! :yeah: Is that a Big Sky? I am a Sightron fan also...they make really good stuff.
Do you plan to try BH209? Are you shooting bare primer?

Grouse, truthfully I have never shot over 110gr BH in any of my knights yet. The shooting I've done at 100 and 110 have given me excellent groups (sub MOA) so I didn't feel the need to go up. (This was in a .45 elite, and .50 elite)

Maybe I'll have to up the loads a hair this spring just to see. :mrgreen:

WV, it is a Big Sky model. It was a NOS 3x9. I believe the comparable scope in their lineup is a 3x12.

I am using bare primer. I have some BH209 I bought when it first came out. I had a pretty steep learning curve with that powder. Quite a few misfires. I went back to T7 and have used that since. I am very comfortable with the T7. I may try some BH209 again in the future.
 
Grouse said:
It's nothing new by any means. The Extreme/Elites are the same way. The Knight bolt guns just hook up at 130grns by volume of powder. I think the extra pressure allows the bullet/sabot combination to engrave the rifling better for better accuracy. That's just my opinion on that.

And by the way, excellent shooting.

What size game are you hunting? You sure don't need a 300grn bullet to kill Deer, Unless it's a poorly designed bullet.

Grouse I have used the .429 300 gr. XTP for a lot of years. I have shot most of my whitetails with that bullet.
 
Dutch said:
Grouse said:
It's nothing new by any means. The Extreme/Elites are the same way. The Knight bolt guns just hook up at 130grns by volume of powder. I think the extra pressure allows the bullet/sabot combination to engrave the rifling better for better accuracy. That's just my opinion on that.

And by the way, excellent shooting.

What size game are you hunting? You sure don't need a 300grn bullet to kill Deer, Unless it's a poorly designed bullet.

Grouse I have used the .429 300 gr. XTP for a lot of years. I have shot most of my whitetails with that bullet.

I've shot many with its brother the 250grn XTP. Just sayin and it will be a little easier on your shoulder. But I think they are .452
 
WV Hunter said:
Good stuff Dutch! :yeah: Is that a Big Sky? I am a Sightron fan also...they make really good stuff.
Do you plan to try BH209? Are you shooting bare primer?

Grouse, truthfully I have never shot over 110gr BH in any of my knights yet. The shooting I've done at 100 and 110 have given me excellent groups (sub MOA) so I didn't feel the need to go up. (This was in a .45 elite, and .50 elite)

Maybe I'll have to up the loads a hair this spring just to see. :mrgreen:

If they shoot good no reason to change. I'm not sure why you shoot a 45 to begin with with such enemic loads. :poke:
 
Dutch said:
WV Hunter said:
Good stuff Dutch! :yeah: Is that a Big Sky? I am a Sightron fan also...they make really good stuff.
Do you plan to try BH209? Are you shooting bare primer?

Grouse, truthfully I have never shot over 110gr BH in any of my knights yet. The shooting I've done at 100 and 110 have given me excellent groups (sub MOA) so I didn't feel the need to go up. (This was in a .45 elite, and .50 elite)

Maybe I'll have to up the loads a hair this spring just to see. :mrgreen:

WV, it is a Big Sky model. It was a NOS 3x9. I believe the comparable scope in their lineup is a 3x12.

I am using bare primer. I have some BH209 I bought when it first came out. I had a pretty steep learning curve with that powder. Quite a few misfires. I went back to T7 and have used that since. I am very comfortable with the T7. I may try some BH209 again in the future.

I think your fine with either powder but I do prefer BH209 over all the others. You won't need to worry about misfires in your Ultralite that's for sure. If you go back to using BH I would get your plug modified or you will wear it out pretty fast.
 
Nice shooting.

I love a good shooting rifle and enjoy wringing out the absolute best accuracy. However, I shoot my Disc Extreme / Elites with 90 -100 grains of powder and generally get the 1.5" groups you see with yours. I avoid the higher loads due to the extra powder and recoil. Although, I've never even felt the recoil when hunting, it's a range problem. Now you have me rethinking my strategy.

I've come to worry more about the first shot in a hunting situation. Prep you gun as you would for a hunt next fall and see where #1 hits... You may be surprised.
 
It has been my experience that most high quality muzzleloading rifles will group best with two loads, one will be in the 70 to 90 grain area and the other will be in the 110 to 140 grain area and the heavier load will always group tightest at ranges beyond 50 yards. This has been with TC and custom guns as that's what I prefer, but I have read enough here to believe that it is also true of the Knights; and strangely enough I have also found it true of my 54 caliber PRB Hawken rifles.
 
Dutch said:
WV Hunter said:
Good stuff Dutch! :yeah: Is that a Big Sky? I am a Sightron fan also...they make really good stuff.
Do you plan to try BH209? Are you shooting bare primer?

Grouse, truthfully I have never shot over 110gr BH in any of my knights yet. The shooting I've done at 100 and 110 have given me excellent groups (sub MOA) so I didn't feel the need to go up. (This was in a .45 elite, and .50 elite)

Maybe I'll have to up the loads a hair this spring just to see. :mrgreen:

WV, it is a Big Sky model. It was a NOS 3x9. I believe the comparable scope in their lineup is a 3x12.

I am using bare primer. I have some BH209 I bought when it first came out. I had a pretty steep learning curve with that powder. Quite a few misfires. I went back to T7 and have used that since. I am very comfortable with the T7. I may try some BH209 again in the future.

Those are awesome scopes! I love mine... I have a 3.5-10x42 Big Sky on a CF rifle.
Be glad you have that... nice eye relief, you might be getting scoped with that load with a different model. 130gr & 300gr bullet can ruin your day if you don't have enough eye relief.

I would certainly consider trying BH209 again. My knights with W209 primers and the bare primer setup are blowback free, and its soooo nice not having to swab :yeah: I don't have a ton of experience with it yet as I just started shooting BH last spring, so I am a newbie... but so far (knock on wood) I've followed the advice here and never once had an issue. I really like it in my Disc style rifles. Try some 250gr bloodlines and BH... that would be a match made in heaven for that rifle, and put down anything you would likely hunt in short order :yeah:


Grouse said:
WV Hunter said:
Good stuff Dutch! :yeah: Is that a Big Sky? I am a Sightron fan also...they make really good stuff.
Do you plan to try BH209? Are you shooting bare primer?

Grouse, truthfully I have never shot over 110gr BH in any of my knights yet. The shooting I've done at 100 and 110 have given me excellent groups (sub MOA) so I didn't feel the need to go up. (This was in a .45 elite, and .50 elite)

Maybe I'll have to up the loads a hair this spring just to see. :mrgreen:

If they shoot good no reason to change. I'm not sure why you shoot a 45 to begin with with such enemic loads. :poke:

My puny loads are tailor fit to our puny deer. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
WVHunter,
No worries, I believe the bloodlines are the only saboted bullet Ron tested that worked at any speed. So just shoot those puny Deer with those Bloodlines you got. :wink:
 
LarryBud said:
Nice shooting.

I love a good shooting rifle and enjoy wringing out the absolute best accuracy. However, I shoot my Disc Extreme / Elites with 90 -100 grains of powder and generally get the 1.5" groups you see with yours. I avoid the higher loads due to the extra powder and recoil. Although, I've never even felt the recoil when hunting, it's a range problem. Now you have me rethinking my strategy.

I've come to worry more about the first shot in a hunting situation. Prep you gun as you would for a hunt next fall and see where #1 hits... You may be surprised.

Hey LarryBud, I had read all the posts over the years about heavier loads being more accurate. Frankly being a little hard headed (I'm Dutch after all!) I never gave it a try. Also most of my shooting has been with my brace of MK85's with open sights. Three inches at 100 years was a good day's work and certainly "minute of whitetail". I have several CF rifles with which I can hold below an inch at 100 anytime I go to the range. Needless to say when I got the UL and mounted the 1x scope (also a Sightron) I was happy with the rifle but knew I could do better if I could just get a closer view of the target. With the higher magnification, the groups at 100 grains and 120 grains were nothing to write home about. So I tried 130.

From shooting ML's a lot over the last ten years I have become more recoil resistant. I was a little surprised how light the recoil felt. It truly was not too bad. It is true that the UL fits my build extremely well. This certainly reduces the feel of the recoil.

If you have plenty of eye relief with your scope, it might be worth committing to three rounds at 130 grains. I suggest you do this early in your shooting session so fatigue is not and issue. Please let us know how it works out.
 
Lee 9 said:
It has been my experience that most high quality muzzleloading rifles will group best with two loads, one will be in the 70 to 90 grain area and the other will be in the 110 to 140 grain area and the heavier load will always group tightest at ranges beyond 50 yards. This has been with TC and custom guns as that's what I prefer, but I have read enough here to believe that it is also true of the Knights; and strangely enough I have also found it true of my 54 caliber PRB Hawken rifles.

Lee I am convinced about the heavy loads. I will have to try the lighter loading as well. It might make a good plinking load. Thinks for the tip.
 
I am with you guys on the Bh209. It is a great powder. When a new guy asks me my advice about getting into muzzleloading I usually steer him to a BH worthy rifle and recommend he use BH. It is so clean and easy to use it usually helps a newbie really enjoy his new rifle.

All that said, I still like the T7 for my personal use. I switched from Pyrodex when T7 came out to get the increased velocity. While certainly dirtier than BH, T7 is amazingly easy to clean up. I am kind of like Sabotloader, I just like the T7 for the type of shooting I do.
 
Dutch said:
I am with you guys on the Bh209. It is a great powder. When a new guy asks me my advice about getting into muzzleloading I usually steer him to a BH worthy rifle and recommend he use BH. It is so clean and easy to use it usually helps a newbie really enjoy his new rifle.

All that said, I still like the T7 for my personal use. I switched from Pyrodex when T7 came out to get the increased velocity. While certainly dirtier than BH, T7 is amazingly easy to clean up. I am kind of like Sabotloader, I just like the T7 for the type of shooting I do.

Well you about mirrored my thoughts with this post. I really think BH is a great powder but for me I can not justify the cost per shot when I am still getting T7 for $20 a pound. Then I probably have 20#'s of it rat holed away. There has been progress though - the new bottle that I got out last week is dated 2012 - so I am catching up with the year in my inventory. Another factor is that in the PacNorWest during ML season we can not shoot BH powder.

The ease of shooting is a valid reason to use BH for a lot maybe even most - but one of the reason that I have totally switched to shooting ML's is that it forces me to slow down the pace and enjoy the activity a whole more than it did when shooting center fire rifles. So the extra time it might cost me in reloading at the range is very good - hunting not a problem I can reload 3-4 shots before it becomes a problem when I am using 209 primers. When shooting caps - it is a non-issue.
 
T7 is also easier to ignite. This gives me an extra level of comfort during a hunt.
 
I was in a store yesterday locally and to my surprise T7 is up to $28.99. :shock: Any idea why so much? :huh?:

Pyrodex RS was $19.99, and BH209 was $36.99. Historically, T7 has usually been about $2-3/ lb more than Pyrodex in my area.
 
Dutch said:
T7 is also easier to ignite. This gives me an extra level of comfort during a hunt.

In hunting extreme conditions like I do, I'm a lot more confident in BH209'going off then 777. You just don't absorb as much moisture with BH209 like you do other powders.
 
Back
Top