Youth Muzzleloaders

My 8 year old is showing a lot of interest in deer hunting. I have her shooting .22s now and doing great. I want to get her a muzzleloader this fall to get a year of shooting and learning in before the following fall. She's a little gal with a 11.5" length of pull. I was hoping to find a .45 but they seem to be non existent. The Knight littlehorn with a 12.5" lop seems to be the best option out there. I want to go muzzleloader over a .243 as we live in a shotgun only zone. Plus dad's a ML guy lol.

Any ideas?

Tc impact also has a 12.5in lop with a one inch insert for when they out grow the 12.5 making it 13.5. very reasonably priced and they shoot very well. my wife has one. guy

My wife shoots a little horn fantastic gun but not sure I'd go that route again after my frustrations with knight. Her other gun is a soon to be cut down white m97, this may be another option for you as you could add stock back on as your boy grows. Most if not all wooden stocked rifles can be cut down.

My youngest son uses a TC Impact. It works well for him. It's a good shooter but not a great one. I'm still tweaking it but for the ranges he hunts, it will work. If I were to do it over again, I would most likely get a CVA Wolf Compact. Both of our CVAs routinely shoot better than the two TCs I have. That Knight LittleHorn looks like a nice rifle.

I was able to find a used wolverine and replacement youth stock. If you look around you can do that a lot cheaper than buying a new littlehorn.

I have a accura mr cut down for my wife. 50 grains blackhorn with plastic patch and .49 round ball is 1 groups ar 50 yards with no recoil. Trigger on the accura is outstanding. I consider it a 50 yard ml with that load.

You might look around for one of those Wolverine 45cal light contours that Sportmansguide was selling. Add a Littlehorn stock and possibly remove a few inches from the barrel. Boyds also sells some Knight stocks with custom LOP that should work.

IMO its really hard to beat the 45s when it comes to reducing recoil.

I have a LK93 (same as wolverine) they sure are light and compact. Regular stock might be a tad long though LOP, as mentioned. Would be a nice little setup, even in a .50. You could reduce the load down... using .45, or even .40 bullets

The youth model 700ml may also be an option you want to consider.
Only comes in 50 cal with a 21" barrel and a 12.25" length of pull.
Buckdoehunter has one he just put an aftermarket stock on for his daughter.
He could give you some pros and cons on it

I was able to find a mint Knight LKII on the fire several years ago and this model was 2" shorter from the muzzle to the end of the plunger compared to my MK85. I was thinking of trimming the butt down since my grandson was only 6 at the time but stumbled across a 2" shorter youth stock for it on eBay and bought it. So it is 4" shorter than my MK 85 and he can shoot it pretty well. Since it uses #11 cap, I use a hybrid load of about 8 grains of Triple 7 first that fills the breech plug's flash chamber and then 50 grains of BH209 on top of that. The bullet is a Barnes 155 grain all copper 10mm handgun bullet with some Spitfire tips I got from Barnes - shoots well with minimum recoil. I still have the TRS-25 red dot on it to make sure he doesn't get scope eye.

H&R Huntsman in .45 or .50 and shoot .40 200gr XTP's over a 50-60grn load. Lose the ramrod and use a take down instead. They are light at 6.5-7.5# depending upon scope & stock composition and easy pointing for a kid. The barrel can be shortened to lighten up the front end and of course you can add weight to the butt stock(they even make add on weight bar for inside the wood ones or you can add rubber mulch to synthetic stock cavitiy)as well as install a nice limbsaver recoil pad.

I did all of this for my 9yo who is REAL RECOIL SENSITIVE last year and its soft enough for him to put 1" groups @ 50 yds.

In a 50 I would use the 40X50 dark blue sabot shooting 200 gr 40 cal XTP. Hot glue a sub base on the sabot and knurl the bullets. 50 gr of FFF black or whatever load of BH 209 would compare will be a winner. Ignition of the BH209 may be problematic with those light bullets and loads so testing is in order. Try starting there and go up to find accuracy and test bullet performance. Those pistol bullets are great as long as velocity is under 2K fps and that load should be less than 1500. Way better than a PRB in a 50. Been there and done that and my 98# 28 yr old daughter loves to shoot ML. W

wolfer said:

In a 50 I would use the 40X50 dark blue sabot shooting 200 gr 40 cal XTP. Hot glue a sub base on the sabot and knurl the bullets. 50 gr of FFF black or whatever load of BH 209 would compare will be a winner. Ignition of the BH209 may be problematic with those light bullets and loads so testing is in order. Try starting there and go up to find accuracy and test bullet performance. Those pistol bullets are great as long as velocity is under 2K fps and that load should be less than 1500. Way better than a PRB in a 50. Been there and done that and my 98# 28 yr old daughter loves to shoot ML. W

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Wolfer,

Why would you need to hot glue the sub base to the sabot? :huh?:

My buddy picked up a TC Impact and, even though he is far from a perfectionist, got it close to MOA in one session with basic Hornady XTPs with supplied sabots and BH209. He was out harvesting deer pretty quick.

My preference only, but I would not consider any gun that could not shoot all the available powders out of the box. That limits your choices.

ShawnT said:

wolfer said:

In a 50 I would use the 40X50 dark blue sabot shooting 200 gr 40 cal XTP. Hot glue a sub base on the sabot and knurl the bullets. 50 gr of FFF black or whatever load of BH 209 would compare will be a winner. Ignition of the BH209 may be problematic with those light bullets and loads so testing is in order. Try starting there and go up to find accuracy and test bullet performance. Those pistol bullets are great as long as velocity is under 2K fps and that load should be less than 1500. Way better than a PRB in a 50. Been there and done that and my 98# 28 yr old daughter loves to shoot ML. W

Click to expand...

Wolfer,

Why would you need to hot glue the sub base to the sabot? :huh?:

Click to expand...

It makes them, bullet sabot combo, easier to handle. sub-base doesn't go on it's own trip while I'm handling the bullet/sabot combo. gives me a 1 piece item to handle instead of a 2 piece item. and it helps keep "Murphy" away in critical situations like speed loading for a 2nd shot while hunting. Ask me how I know. LOL, just makes things much easier. W

wolfer said:

ShawnT said:

wolfer said:

In a 50 I would use the 40X50 dark blue sabot shooting 200 gr 40 cal XTP. Hot glue a sub base on the sabot and knurl the bullets. 50 gr of FFF black or whatever load of BH 209 would compare will be a winner. Ignition of the BH209 may be problematic with those light bullets and loads so testing is in order. Try starting there and go up to find accuracy and test bullet performance. Those pistol bullets are great as long as velocity is under 2K fps and that load should be less than 1500. Way better than a PRB in a 50. Been there and done that and my 98# 28 yr old daughter loves to shoot ML. W

Click to expand...

Wolfer,

Why would you need to hot glue the sub base to the sabot? :huh?:

Click to expand...

It makes them, bullet sabot combo, easier to handle. sub-base doesn't go on it's own trip while I'm handling the bullet/sabot combo. gives me a 1 piece item to handle instead of a 2 piece item. and it helps keep "Murphy" away in critical situations like speed loading for a 2nd shot while hunting. Ask me how I know. LOL, just makes things much easier. W

Click to expand...

Oh OK.

Thanks,

Bringing this older thread back up as the rifle situation has been figured out. I had bought her a White Super91 .451 but with the full under lug it was way to heavy. Long story short is I sold it off and got a new gun for dad :yeah: and I am passing her down my beloved White Lightning .504. Its light and compact enough she can handle it fine. I am going to start her in a few weeks with 200 grain .40 sst and 50/40 sabots and 50 grains 777. Then as the season gets closer bump her up a few grains. But being she will be shooting a White has anybody had any luck with reduced conical loads that would still be effective on deer?

Yes, my youngest grandson 8yr old shot his doe at 50 yards with his 451 M97 with a load of 50gr of 777-3F and a 350gr HP bullet. She was DRT.

Sounds like a good choice, but you should use the .40 200 XTP instead. You will get about 1400-1500fps with it which is right at home with the 10mm Auto's speed out of pistol and expand perfectly. The 200 SST has a thicker rounded base jacket and although will work, I highly doubt it will out-shoot the flat base XTP with its softer easier to obturate(swell to fill bore)and slip less in the sabot on way out.
The less charge you have the less the bullet base swells/grips sabot so if you have trouble with groups you might even consider knurling them between 2 files to increase diameter/grip sabot better.
Just my .02 but a lot better solution for a kid than trying to increase the powder.
The 180/155xtp's won't work worth a crap with lower loads, so don't waste you time with them.
Another option you might try if the .40's load too loose instead of knurling..is .410 XTP in 50/40 sabot . Might be a bit tight to load after a few shots of 777, but should be manageable on clean bore.

Hope some of this helps.

Thanks Cl, I have plenty of those .40 xtp's also and will try them.

Ed-What 350 HP are you using?