Knight Ultra-Lite w/ Thor & No Excuses

Finally got a chance to shoot my new Ultra-Lite after getting a new BP from bestill (thanks bestill, the plug worked great!). My first range session with it had me using the palm of my hand striking the bolt rearwards to get the primer removed. So I only shot it a couple times and quit. After getting the BP from bestill the primer falls out nice & easy now with NO blow by.

A little background... I've been shooting/ hunting with muzzleloaders for about 12 years now. I've owned a few but have always stuck with my T/C Omega for hunting. It was the first muzzleloader I bought and did me good for many years. I started with Powerbelts in the Omega, then started looking at different bullet options. I tried some No Excuses but never could get very good groups. Somewhere along the line I switched to BH209 and a 250gr. Thor ballistic tip which was very accurate. This has been my go to load for the last few years.

Back to the Ultra-Lite... I've always liked the idea of the 460gr. No Excuses bullet for some reason. I had also heard they tend to shoot well out of Knight U/L's, Mountaineers and Discs so I decided I would make these my first bullet to try and work up a load for. Went out yesterday and set a target at 25 yds. to do some testing. I loaded up with 80gr. by volume BH209, a 460gr. No Excuses conical and a Win209 primer. First shot about an inch off the bull. Not bad I thought! Then my second shot... didn't even hit the box the target was stapled to? Kind of confused, I used a drill bit to clean out the BP and loaded up again. Shot and missed the target & box completely again? Loaded again and same result. Cleaned the BP again and my fourth shot connected about an inch from my first shot right by the bull? Fifth shot did not hit the target again. Five shots and only two of them actually hit the target. So now I'm really confused. How can I not be hitting the target at 25 yds? I can understand poor groups but this was a first one for me. I couldn't tell where the bullets were going that didn't hit the target either unfortunately. I always test loads like I'm hunting and possibly making a followup shot. So I shoot twice before letting the barrel cool much and clean the BP with a drill bit. I did no swabbing either.

Sitting there scratching my head I decide to go to my "go to" load I used in my Omega. Loaded up 100gr. by volume of BH209, a 250gr. Thor ballistic tip and a Win209 primer. First shot at 25 yds. hits right next to the bull. I fire three more times and have a nice one hole group! I move the target out to 50 yds. and fire six more times creating a 1.5" group (except one that was a little further out due to me). Things are looking up!

I'm still really confused about what was going on with the No Excuses though? How can it be that bad at such a short distance? Any thoughts on this? I'll probably be sticking with the Thor bullet for hunting anyway just curious what might have caused such erratic results?

CoHiCntry said:

Back to the Ultra-Lite... I've always liked the idea of the 460gr. No Excuses bullet for some reason. I had also heard they tend to shoot well out of Knight U/L's, Mountaineers and Discs so I decided I would make these my first bullet to try and work up a load for. Went out yesterday and set a target at 25 yds. to do some testing. I loaded up with 80gr. by volume BH209, a 460gr. No Excuses conical and a Win209 primer. First shot about an inch off the bull. Not bad I thought! Then my second shot... didn't even hit the box the target was stapled to? Kind of confused, I used a drill bit to clean out the BP and loaded up again. Shot and missed the target & box completely again? Loaded again and same result. Cleaned the BP again and my fourth shot connected about an inch from my first shot right by the bull? Fifth shot did not hit the target again. Five shots and only two of them actually hit the target. So now I'm really confused. How can I not be hitting the target at 25 yds? I can understand poor groups but this was a first one for me. I couldn't tell where the bullets were going that didn't hit the target either unfortunately. I always test loads like I'm hunting and possibly making a followup shot. So I shoot twice before letting the barrel cool much and clean the BP with a drill bit. I did no swabbing either.

Click to expand...

I would suggest to you and really do not know for sure... but the No Excuse .503x460 has been a very loose .503 in my mind. I have shot both .503's the No Excuse and the Bull Shop. The .503 Bull Shop loads significantly tighter than does the No Excuse. Because of this I would ask you how tight was it going down the bore.

One thing that might help you is to put a shot card under the bullet and on top of the powder. This card or Veggie Wad will retain the gas behind the bullet and possible cause better obturation of the lead to the bore. If that bullet slips up the barrel very far without rotation it will/may not achieve stabilization.

Just some thoughts

sabotloader said:

CoHiCntry said:

Back to the Ultra-Lite... I've always liked the idea of the 460gr. No Excuses bullet for some reason. I had also heard they tend to shoot well out of Knight U/L's, Mountaineers and Discs so I decided I would make these my first bullet to try and work up a load for. Went out yesterday and set a target at 25 yds. to do some testing. I loaded up with 80gr. by volume BH209, a 460gr. No Excuses conical and a Win209 primer. First shot about an inch off the bull. Not bad I thought! Then my second shot... didn't even hit the box the target was stapled to? Kind of confused, I used a drill bit to clean out the BP and loaded up again. Shot and missed the target & box completely again? Loaded again and same result. Cleaned the BP again and my fourth shot connected about an inch from my first shot right by the bull? Fifth shot did not hit the target again. Five shots and only two of them actually hit the target. So now I'm really confused. How can I not be hitting the target at 25 yds? I can understand poor groups but this was a first one for me. I couldn't tell where the bullets were going that didn't hit the target either unfortunately. I always test loads like I'm hunting and possibly making a followup shot. So I shoot twice before letting the barrel cool much and clean the BP with a drill bit. I did no swabbing either.

Click to expand...

I would suggest to you and really do not know for sure... but the No Excuse .503x460 has been a very loose .503 in my mind. I have shot both .503's the No Excuse and the Bull Shop. The .503 Bull Shop loads significantly tighter than does the No Excuse. Because of this I would ask you how tight was it going down the bore.

One thing that might help you is to put a shot card under the bullet and on top of the powder. This card or Veggie Wad will retain the gas behind the bullet and possible cause better obturation of the lead to the bore. If that bullet slips up the barrel very far without rotation it will/may not achieve stabilization.

Just some thoughts

Click to expand...

And i would add that 70 gr or less i wouldnt worry but at 80 gr i would be concerned about leading in the bore

CoHiCntry, I shoot a mountaineer with bare primer and my rifle really likes the No Excuses 460g with 80g Black Horn 209 powder. I am also using a gas check of sorts from Magnum Muzzleloader Products that they call a "Sub Bridge". This was suggested by another member and I have actually never tried the N.E. bullets without it. This is because at 50 yards, off a solid rest, using a scope for load development, my mountaineer puts these bullets pretty much in the same hole. I managed a 1.5 inch 3 shot group at 100 yards a few weeks ago with open sights using this load. My sights are now Williams FP and Lee Shaver Globe, which I REALLY like, by the way.. I am still learning the in's and out's of black powder and don't have much experience to draw upon but thought this info may be of interest to you. I also live in CO and all my load tinkering is with full bore conicals. I fortunately have not experienced any apparent leading issues with this load.

http://mmpsabots.com/store/50-cal-bbsb- ... -sub-base/

In my 45s, 80gr of BH209 will get a 460gr moving a little over 1400fps. That is pretty high for pure lead. A 50cal 460gr is quite a bit shorter than the 45cal 460gr so it is more likely to "skip" the rifling and lead your bore. There is less bullet to bore contact.

I would recommend trying 70gr and IMO you want a tighter fit, Somewhere around .0015-.002 over lands when using lead conicals with BH209. They will only feel tighter at first but will still go down the barrel easily after passing through the crown.