Fishy Bullet drop results

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Wow Chyhunting ! That is some amazing shooting ! What sabots are you using and how long between shots ?
 
Encore 50A , I uploaded my pics on my phone , I'll try that on my laptop though , thank you. I agree with you , this gun really seems to like those BEs. I'm shooting the standard sabots that the BEs come with, I believe they are made by MMP , as are most. Make no mistake , I can't just throw up groups like that on a whim, it takes preparation, it took ALOT of money , testing , time , and down right crappy groups to finally get groups like this... And I shoot every weekend. I shoot a bipod on the front, and a bag in the rear , from a dedicated shooting table. Time between shots is whatever it takes, not to be a smartass, lol. I made a set of cooling rods and I use a touchless laser thermometer.... Once its under the ambient temperature of the day , its good. I tell you , after I made a set of cooling rods , I won't shoot without them. I put ice in the tube before I head off to shoot , I insert a rod after swabbing and put my hand on the breech end of the barrel, you can ACTUALLY feel the barrel turn cold in less than a minute, I take out the rod , swab again for any condensation that may have occurred , then measure with the thermometer, which you don't really need , you can feel when its cool enough, then load up. One thing I have learned is Sabots are definitely the week link... I mean if your barrel feels warm AT ALL... it is much hotter inside that breech area. When you slide that sabot down in there, every second it is in there , the plastic is getting softer from the heat, which throws consistency out the window. Another thing I've learned is , I dont care how clean the powder claims to be, if you want consistency, clean the barrel between every shot... I try to duplicate that first shot that you would take from the stand with every shot, meaning a clean cold barrel. I try to learn more and more with every time out, and every time out makes me that much more hungry to get it as good as I can. I haven't gone to the smokeless yet , and I dont think I will, I can bump up the BH to 160 by volume and break into the 2500's but it just doesn't seem necessary at this point and the 112 by weight of BH seems to give me the best accuracy.
 
Encore 50A , I uploaded my pics on my phone , I'll try that on my laptop though , thank you. I agree with you , this gun really seems to like those BEs. I'm shooting the standard sabots that the BEs come with, I believe they are made by MMP , as are most. Make no mistake , I can't just throw up groups like that on a whim, it takes preparation, it took ALOT of money , testing , time , and down right crappy groups to finally get groups like this... And I shoot every weekend. I shoot a bipod on the front, and a bag in the rear , from a dedicated shooting table. Time between shots is whatever it takes, not to be a smartass, lol. I made a set of cooling rods and I use a touchless laser thermometer.... Once its under the ambient temperature of the day , its good. I tell you , after I made a set of cooling rods , I won't shoot without them. I put ice in the tube before I head off to shoot , I insert a rod after swabbing and put my hand on the breech end of the barrel, you can ACTUALLY feel the barrel turn cold in less than a minute, I take out the rod , swab again for any condensation that may have occurred , then measure with the thermometer, which you don't really need , you can feel when its cool enough, then load up. One thing I have learned is Sabots are definitely the week link... I mean if your barrel feels warm AT ALL... it is much hotter inside that breech area. When you slide that sabot down in there, every second it is in there , the plastic is getting softer from the heat, which throws consistency out the window. Another thing I've learned is , I dont care how clean the powder claims to be, if you want consistency, clean the barrel between every shot... I try to duplicate that first shot that you would take from the stand with every shot, meaning a clean cold barrel. I try to learn more and more with every time out, and every time out makes me that much more hungry to get it as good as I can. I haven't gone to the smokeless yet , and I dont think I will, I can bump up the BH to 160 by volume and break into the 2500's but it just doesn't seem necessary at this point and the 112 by weight of BH seems to give me the best accuracy.
 
chyhunting said:
Oops somehow I posted that twice, I can't figure out how to erase one. Sorry guys.

Click on the "edit" button and delete/erase it.

Keep track of your brass, REAL good and after each time shooting. If they show ANY signs of leaking, throw them out.
Its great to see the RU shooting like it should. That rifle is a long range rifle and there's no reason it can't shoot like that all the time. Yes, the shooter needs to do his/her part.

How and what did you make your cooling rods from?
 
My thoughts on the heavier bullet impacting higher is the heavier bullet recoils more pushing the rifle back further on the rear bag
causing the back of the rifle to drop more which makes the line of sight higher. All this happening before the bullet exits the barrel.
Some people will argue that the bullet is out of the barrel before all this happens. In my opinion it happens as described above.
 
derfhunter said:
My thoughts on the heavier bullet impacting higher is the heavier bullet recoils more pushing the rifle back further on the rear bag
causing the back of the rifle to drop more which makes the line of sight higher. All this happening before the bullet exits the barrel.
Some people will argue that the bullet is out of the barrel before all this happens. In my opinion it happens as described above.


That was a potential reason given to my Firing Line query. But most thought that would possibly only occur from the excessive recoil for a pistol. However, I have no clue so I'd have to lean towards the BC theory based on Newton's Law "A body in motion tends to stay in motion".
 
tpcollins said:
derfhunter said:
My thoughts on the heavier bullet impacting higher is the heavier bullet recoils more pushing the rifle back further on the rear bag
causing the back of the rifle to drop more which makes the line of sight higher. All this happening before the bullet exits the barrel.
Some people will argue that the bullet is out of the barrel before all this happens. In my opinion it happens as described above.


That was a potential reason given to my Firing Line query. But most thought that would possibly only occur from the excessive recoil for a pistol. However, I have no clue so I'd have to lean towards the BC theory based on Newton's Law "A body in motion tends to stay in motion".

Physics (ballistics including BC) indicates what will happen, all other contributing factors working properly. A rifle positioned properly isn't going to create the huge difference in bullet drop because of recoil, especially in a bolt rifle. Now if it were a break open rifle, the hinge can definitely play a part. I do believe the OP found his issue. He's got that RU shooting great!
 
ENCORE50A said:
chyhunting said:
Oops somehow I posted that twice, I can't figure out how to erase one. Sorry guys.

Click on the "edit" button and delete/erase it.

Keep track of your brass, REAL good and after each time shooting. If they show ANY signs of leaking, throw them out.
Its great to see the RU shooting like it should. That rifle is a long range rifle and there's no reason it can't shoot like that all the time. Yes, the shooter needs to do his/her part.

How and what did you make your cooling rods from?

I made my cooling rods from 1/2" aluminum solid rod, then just made a "case" out of 4" pvc , sealed one end and put a screw cap on the other. I learned the hard way about the breech plug and leaking brass. If they start to leak , they will burn the tip off of the breech plug. It was my fault, used too big of a punch to knock out a primer and slightly enlarged the hole... NO GOOD. Remington replaced it free of charge. Also when it develops a leak it will not fire BH reliably, I was getting misfires and hangfires every outing, which is what led me to notice it was burnt. After replacing, haven't had a misfire or hangfire since.
 
I'm trying to learn how to shoot better long Range . Are you shooting the original stock ? If so what front rest and bag are you using ? I'm having problems with my gun torqing during/after shot . It wants to torq to the right causing my groups to hit a little right . At 100 yards I don't see it but as I go out further things really open up . ( obviously ) I like to hold the gun loose but finding out that may not work with these heavy recoil guns ???
 
chyhunting said:
ENCORE50A said:
chyhunting said:
Oops somehow I posted that twice, I can't figure out how to erase one. Sorry guys.

Click on the "edit" button and delete/erase it.

Keep track of your brass, REAL good and after each time shooting. If they show ANY signs of leaking, throw them out.
Its great to see the RU shooting like it should. That rifle is a long range rifle and there's no reason it can't shoot like that all the time. Yes, the shooter needs to do his/her part.

How and what did you make your cooling rods from?

I made my cooling rods from 1/2" aluminum solid rod, then just made a "case" out of 4" pvc , sealed one end and put a screw cap on the other. I learned the hard way about the breech plug and leaking brass. If they start to leak , they will burn the tip off of the breech plug. It was my fault, used too big of a punch to knock out a primer and slightly enlarged the hole... NO GOOD. Remington replaced it free of charge. Also when it develops a leak it will not fire BH reliably, I was getting misfires and hangfires every outing, which is what led me to notice it was burnt. After replacing, haven't had a misfire or hangfire since.

Not certain how many re-primes you're getting but, just remember that after "X" amount of times the brass starts retaining a memory. That memory will gas cut even your new BP by allowing gas to escape.
Amazes me how Remington can send a replacement breech plug and have the head space set correctly/close :huh?:

I'm not shooting the RU, I'm shooting the BP Xpress. Mine has the McMillan thumbhole stock. I don't hold it loose to the shoulder, just hold it back snug. Placement I found, makes a difference, especially using the recoil shield and believe me, that shield WORKS.

I use a Caldwell Rock front rest and a Protekcor rear bag. I always shoot with the Caldwell recoil shield.

https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Rock-De ... ll+rock+br
https://www.amazon.com/Protektor-Model- ... oting+rest
https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Mag-Plu ... ooting+pad
 
Recoil shield ? What exactly is that ? I'm finding out that my cheek weld makes a big difference . Obviously everything really shows up at longer range . I'm thinking of getting a bench rest style stock or put some sort of plate on the bottom of my stock to help with the gun torqing . At Friendship you only can hold the gun with your right hand (ENCORE you already know ) I'm thinking maybe then the gun will recoil straight back ? I'm trying to figure out the very best set up and load . Then I'm going to strictly work on my form . Lord knows I have lots to work on in that department !
 
Dougs136Schwartz said:
Recoil shield ? What exactly is that ? I'm finding out that my cheek weld makes a big difference . Obviously everything really shows up at longer range . I'm thinking of getting a bench rest style stock or put some sort of plate on the bottom of my stock to help with the gun torqing . At Friendship you only can hold the gun with your right hand (ENCORE you already know ) I'm thinking maybe then the gun will recoil straight back ? I'm trying to figure out the very best set up and load . Then I'm going to strictly work on my form . Lord knows I have lots to work on in that department !

Click on the links above, as all three I used are shown. By the way, check your PM's.

I would suggest......... those stocks with the bottom plate...... you'll have more people watching than you my realize at a meet or match. Just say'n.

If you get the stock mounted properly on the shoulder, it will recoil straight back. I've watched the good shooters at Friendship and they ALL have a method. I have one myself using that PAST recoil pad (shield). There's a couple youtube videos explaining it by long range shooting instructors.
I changed my form just before the spring match and yeah I know, bad. But, it worked out, all except for me trying to determine when to have the trigger break between heart beats.
Long range shoot'n is FUN :yeah:
 
I don't know how Remington figures headspace. I think they must use the mentality of less is more. LOL....When I close the bolt I can feel the bolt pushing the brass tight on the "nipple" in the breech plug, plug stays good and clean so I suspect it is sealing good. When my old plug started leaking ,the bolt closed much easier and the bolt side of the plug and the brass got dirty from the "blow by". I'm using the factory laminated stock, I like the look and it's more comfortable to me than the composite. I use a strap on cheek rest. A good cheek weld has improved my shooting greatly. I use 1.5" rings and need some extra height on the stock to get good and "locked in" for the shot. I use a bipod on the front. I had to install a metal plate under the barrel for the stud to screw into. I pulled out the factory stud from the recoil. In the rear, I use a regular Caldwell bag. I shoot with my right hand on the gun and my left arm wrapped around and squeezing the bag. I try to hold the gun firmly but not too tight. I shoot on a half exhale. I Breath in , then I breath halfway out, hold and squeeze..Not saying it's the right way, just my way. :nono: If you are shooting a BDC reticle, make sure you are not inadvertently holding the gun at NOT a true level position, that will make it appear as if your shots are drifting more and more the further out you go. A scope level will remove any doubts.
 
chyhunting said:
I don't know how Remington figures headspace. I think they must use the mentality of less is more. LOL....When I close the bolt I can feel the bolt pushing the brass tight on the "nipple" in the breech plug, plug stays good and clean so I suspect it is sealing good. When my old plug started leaking ,the bolt closed much easier and the bolt side of the plug and the brass got dirty from the "blow by.

That's the seal you want, feeling the bolt close tighter. If the bolt closes to loose, then there could be an issue with to much head space. If there's not enough head space, you won't be able to close the bolt. Problem is, the brass head can be .003 or even up to .004" different in thickness and that can cause an issue itself. They don't seal because of the length of the brass, but the thickness of the brass head. That indicates that the BP overall length is how it is head spaced. Thus, how the heck with replacement plugs? ...... Did Remington replace yours or did you do it???
I checked the head thickness of a lot of brass, trying to find that single piece which had the thinnest head. Once I found that, my breech plug was matched to that brass case for a perfect seal. Now came the manual part, where I trimmed each piece of brass to an exact length. I used my master piece of brass to set my internal primer pocket reamer depth. Then reamed each piece of brass so that all were identical. I now have a tight seal on all my brass, rather once fired or new. I inspect each piece of fired brass, even if its the first time fired. I don't believe I'll reprime any over twice.

For the shooting that most owners will do, getting this particular probably isn't necessary but, when you shoot a lot of rounds, then a little more precaution is necessary IMO.
 
Wow , thats a lot of brass work. Great method. I installed the plug myself, just screwed it in and torqued to spec., seals great. I shoot every weekend. Ive got brass that ive lost count how many times ive reprimed and they aren't leaking yet. I'm sure its past time to get rid of the older ones before they do start leaking though.
 
chyhunting said:
Wow , thats a lot of brass work. Great method. I installed the plug myself, just screwed it in and torqued to spec., seals great. I shoot every weekend. Ive got brass that ive lost count how many times ive reprimed and they aren't leaking yet. I'm sure its past time to get rid of the older ones before they do start leaking though.

I can't stress enough how you should keep track of that brass. Its also amazing how well you have your replacement plug sealing. Just remember that the brass isn't consistent with head thickness. As far as the brass work, its something to do during the winter or when there's only reruns on TV. Keeps a man's mind busy :wink:

 
ENCORE50A said:
chyhunting said:
Wow , thats a lot of brass work. Great method. I installed the plug myself, just screwed it in and torqued to spec., seals great. I shoot every weekend. Ive got brass that ive lost count how many times ive reprimed and they aren't leaking yet. I'm sure its past time to get rid of the older ones before they do start leaking though.

I can't stress enough how you should keep track of that brass. Its also amazing how well you have your replacement plug sealing. Just remember that the brass isn't consistent with head thickness. As far as the brass work, its something to do during the winter or when there's only reruns on TV. Keeps a man's mind busy :wink:

I'm definitely going to check out my brass like you have described. I'm still getting good "bolt pressure" when closing on all my brass but I'm a FIRM believer of doing everything I can to keep everything as consistent as possible. I believe the more consistent we can make everything , then the only variable left is human. Which is why I practice sooo much..
 

Latest posts

Back
Top