BP and bare primer question

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Trace

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I recently bought a NOS Knight Extreme 45 cal. This week the bare primer from Knight was installed and today I did some shooting. On the positive side there is less blowback than the original red DISC set up. On the negative, the primers are kinda hard to load into the new bolt and won't release after they are fired, without some prying and/or bolt removal. From what I have read on the forum if I add shims to the bp primer pocket this should improve the fit and release of the primer. So I roughly measured the shims needed and it is .015-.020 . I need to do a little more work on this variance. So that is the story and here is the related question, about this new breach plug.....it has a vent liner. Does the vent liner need to be removed as part of the cleaning process or removed periodically or just left alone until it needs replaced? Thanks for any advice.
Also on the plus side I got a load figured out of 105gr triple 7ffg with 200gr XTP. I think this is going to be the hunting load for year 1 with a ml.
 
When my Knight Disc used to hold the primer in the Lehigh Conversion, I would cock the rifle again and fire it (empty of course) against the bare primer. Many times it made the thing let go for some reason.
 
what primers are you useing?? win 209 work's good in my disc... some primers does the same in mine .. try what cayuga sad to do... WORM
 
You are dead on with the problem. Gun has improper headspace and shimming to get about
003 primer crush would definitely remedy sticking primers.

Vent liner in knight breech plug is a fixed item so when burns out you either replace breech or have ventliner machined out and threaded for replacement.

Final option i sell a custom fit breech plug that will fix both problems . Proper headspace and vent issues.

Search on forum for
Knight bolt gun owners
 
Thanks for the info. I will eventually buy a bestill bp but trying to make this knight plug work for now. The vent liner is tapped to a 7/64" hex key size so I thought this could be replaced or removed for cleaning. Not sure if that would be reverse threaded or not. Probably has thread lock dope on it? Anyway for this hunting season I will have to buy some shims. Gotta hurry up cause archery season starts next Saturday and playing with gun time will be limited. :)
 
Vent liner is not removable in knight plug unless you machine it out and it's very hard material
 
You might make it a little better with a longer primer, or you could shim it for the time being to get it pretty close. Ultimately to get it perfect, the bestill plug is a custom fit.
 
strace said:
Thanks for the info. I will eventually buy a bestill bp but trying to make this knight plug work for now. The vent liner is tapped to a 7/64" hex key size so I thought this could be replaced or removed for cleaning. Not sure if that would be reverse threaded or not. Probably has thread lock dope on it? Anyway for this hunting season I will have to buy some shims. Gotta hurry up cause archery season starts next Saturday and playing with gun time will be limited. :)
If it is a True Knight Plug you can't remove the ventliner even though you can put an Allen wrench in it, they are Vacuum Brazed in due to Liability reasons. As mention they have to be machined out. Best to just leave it alone. If the flash hole is worn out then best to just replace it with Bestill's plug (Best option). The only Plug that has a removable Ventliner was the Lehigh Plug (aftermarket) that is now obsolete but some are still available. Shimming will definitely fix your other problems. Also make sure the Bare primer adapter is clean down in the corners, any carbon can also hang onto the primer when you tip the rifle to let it fall out.
 
Thanks for the additional info. The brazing of the vent liner wasn't something that crossed my old brain.
After studying this primer hanging issue, beyond the shimming needs, the primer channel is putting pressure on some but not all primers. Hope that makes sense. In my case, I don't have an adapter but opted for the knight replacement bolt. So it seems that the bolt might need some delicate filing down of the primer rail. (That is probably not correct terminology). This problem exists with a completely clean bolt and carbon removed that might have made the sticking primer issue worse.
This is using win 777 primers.
Anyone ever have to file down that primer holding rail to get more consistent primer release?
 
I am a firm believer in the hottest 209 primers possible (Federal 209A). They stick upon ignition (red full plastic jacket sticks too) and I deal with both using small, curled, palm-sized needle nose pliers. My many pants, shirt and jacket pockets are outfitted for muzzleloader shooting accessories needed on the hunting grounds.

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-3-4-quarter-inch-bent-needle-nose-pliers-40698.html
 
strace said:
Thanks for the additional info. The brazing of the vent liner wasn't something that crossed my old brain.
After studying this primer hanging issue, beyond the shimming needs, the primer channel is putting pressure on some but not all primers. Hope that makes sense. In my case, I don't have an adapter but opted for the knight replacement bolt. So it seems that the bolt might need some delicate filing down of the primer rail. (That is probably not correct terminology). This problem exists with a completely clean bolt and carbon removed that might have made the sticking primer issue worse.
This is using win 777 primers.
Anyone ever have to file down that primer holding rail to get more consistent primer release?
Before you try altering the bolt, try re-cocking the bolt, then pull the trigger on that fired primer. See of it falls out then. If it does it is just a headspace issue and you don't need to alter the bolt. Most times when you fire the rifle with excess headspace the Primer cup backs out of the Primer sleeve causing it to stick. If you re-cock and fire again it pushes the cup back in and lets the primer drop out, Shimming corrects that.
 
ShawnT said:
strace said:
Thanks for the additional info. The brazing of the vent liner wasn't something that crossed my old brain.
After studying this primer hanging issue, beyond the shimming needs, the primer channel is putting pressure on some but not all primers. Hope that makes sense. In my case, I don't have an adapter but opted for the knight replacement bolt. So it seems that the bolt might need some delicate filing down of the primer rail. (That is probably not correct terminology). This problem exists with a completely clean bolt and carbon removed that might have made the sticking primer issue worse.
This is using win 777 primers.
Anyone ever have to file down that primer holding rail to get more consistent primer release?
Before you try altering the bolt, try re-cocking the bolt, then pull the trigger on that fired primer. See of it falls out then. If it does it is just a headspace issue and you don't need to alter the bolt. Most times when you fire the rifle with excess headspace the Primer cup backs out of the Primer sleeve causing it to stick. If you re-cock and fire again it pushes the cup back in and lets the primer drop out, Shimming corrects that.

^^^^^^Try this for sure.^^^^^^^

I have no experience with the newer style Knight bare primer bolt but i wonder which of these dimensions might be a bit tight.

D or E?
As you can see, a regular Win209 is pretty large in both those dimensions but other USA made primers are even larger. The only USA made primer you could try that has both smaller D and E is the Rem STS primer. Unfortunately they are also very short overall length.
331d3jb.jpg
 
I will try the recock method once I get this headspace issue resolved but to clarify.....the primer is overly tight in the bolt primer pocket in an unfired condition. It is not D or E dimension but C that is too tight. The actual primer body is minutely too tight on the bolt primer rail and will not seat to the rear of the bolt pocket without some push.
 
I have a few Bare Primer Plugs that the primer sticks in, one a Win.209 will not even go in. When I get back from Co. I will send it to bestill for an opening up in the ID. I think it could be the brazing of the ventliner that shrinks the ID where the primer goes into. Just my .02.
cents
 
Thanks to the knowledgeable forum members and a forum member for sending shims. My knight is ready to shoot a no blowback load. It took one .015 and two .005 shims to get a good primer crush. What a difference. I also carefully filed the primer rails on the bolt so the primer is no longer hanging. Appreciate the help.
 
strace said:
Thanks to the knowledgeable forum members and a forum member for sending shims. My knight is ready to shoot a no blowback load. It took one .015 and two .005 shims to get a good primer crush. What a difference. I also carefully filed the primer rails on the bolt so the primer is no longer hanging. Appreciate the help.
:partyman: That is great to here. :partyman: Let us know how it shoots too. Good luck hunting with it. Your gonna love carrying that rifle over a slug gun. :wink:
 
Both of the bare primer BPs that came from Knight with the new bolt style needed some polishing of the primer pocket before you could seat a primer. I called Knight on the first one and they offered to send me a new one, but I just used some Montana bore past on a cotton swab and polished the pocket until I could insert and remove the primer with my fingers. I have 3 Lehigh BP that have never given me a problen. They are clearly made of a different alloy steel than the current ones.
 
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