Are All Lead Conicals the Same?

Looking at buying lead conicals for a .52 off of Gun Broker. 550 Grains. I'f I can get them to shoot do I need to worry about them expanding or being brittle? Sorry if it's a silly question but I don't know much about casting.

CO MZ Elk hunt this year. CO Regs are:

>=50 Cal
FBC only
No Glass
209s OK

This takes my 45s off the table. I need two guns (one for my Son and a third for a back up would not be a bad idea ).

50 Cal Disc Extreme T-Hole- will be fine
I have a 50 cal FT. Worth Arms Rio Grande but it weighs a ton.( perhaps as a backup )

That leaves me with a TC Omega or my .52. Extreme. The QLA on the Omega is questionable for Conicals. I love the .52 with Sabots but they are a no go.

%2 bore on here had a post on them his shoots conical very well. I believe he uses a hollow point. Accurate mold I think has a model of it. It is not a HP though

The gun broker conicals expand and don't come apart in my experience with the ones I sent you.

LarryBud said:

Looking at buying lead conicals for a .52 off of Gun Broker. 550 Grains. I'f I can get them to shoot do I need to worry about them expanding or being brittle? Sorry if it's a silly question but I don't know much about casting.

CO MZ Elk hunt this year. CO Regs are:

>=50 Cal
FBC only
No Glass
209s OK

This takes my 45s off the table. I need two guns (one for my Son and a third for a back up would not be a bad idea ).

50 Cal Disc Extreme T-Hole- will be fine
I have a 50 cal FT. Worth Arms Rio Grande but it weighs a ton.( perhaps as a backup )

That leaves me with a TC Omega or my .52. Extreme. The QLA on the Omega is questionable for Conicals. I love the .52 with Sabots but they are a no go.

Click to expand...

Paper Patching a sharps bullet in the .512" range with 9# onion skin will give you a bullet that is .518" and should load snug and not ever come off the powder. You can order paper and bullets from Buffalo arms. You can play with the weight to find the bullet your gun likes.

Fmfdred56 said:

The gun broker conicals expand and don't come apart in my experience with the ones I sent you.

Click to expand...

That's exactly what I want to know. I'm going to shoot them this weekend. If they group, they will go to mountains this September.

idahoron said:

LarryBud said:

Looking at buying lead conicals for a .52 off of Gun Broker. 550 Grains. I'f I can get them to shoot do I need to worry about them expanding or being brittle? Sorry if it's a silly question but I don't know much about casting.

CO MZ Elk hunt this year. CO Regs are:

>=50 Cal
FBC only
No Glass
209s OK

This takes my 45s off the table. I need two guns (one for my Son and a third for a back up would not be a bad idea ).

50 Cal Disc Extreme T-Hole- will be fine
I have a 50 cal FT. Worth Arms Rio Grande but it weighs a ton.( perhaps as a backup )

That leaves me with a TC Omega or my .52. Extreme. The QLA on the Omega is questionable for Conicals. I love the .52 with Sabots but they are a no go.

Click to expand...

Paper Patching a sharps bullet in the .512" range with 9# onion skin will give you a bullet that is .518" and should load snug and not ever come off the powder. You can order paper and bullets from Buffalo arms. You can play with the weight to find the bullet your gun likes.

Click to expand...

Thanks Ron. I've watched your success and tutorials over the years. I've never had the need to switch off the saboted loads until now.

If you have anywhere close to the accuracy success I've had with my '52 500' bullet out of my 52 DE, you'll drop one for sure.
Best of luck and keep us posted on your testing.

didn't know pure lead conicals would fly apart

45cal said:

didn't know pure lead conicals would fly apart

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same here, hasn't happened to me since I started shooting muzzleloaders

Maybe this is what he means by flying apart??? :wink:

Ever seen a powerbelts? I've seen them come flying apart.

Pure lead, even a roundball just smashes to a cupped disc. But when you push it too fast it will splinter. harder lead usually holds together well

I guess my question was around the lead itself. Not being a caster, I've read that not all lead is of equal quality.

Is it wheel weights that are too hard for functional use? I guess splintering would be a long shot but not mushrooming must be a possibility. Is there a scratch test or the like to assure I wont pencil through?

52Bore said:

If you have anywhere close to the accuracy success I've had with my '52 500' bullet out of my 52 DE, you'll drop one for sure.
Best of luck and keep us posted on your testing.

Click to expand...

Do you home cast or are these available for purchase? What powder / load may I ask? Heading to the range today.

Conicals are all about getting the right length (weight) for your rifle twist, and fit for bore. For muzzleloading purpose, They are almost always cast from pure, or soft lead, to easily engage rifling and conform to barrel on loading. Soft is also necessary for Obtrusion (swelling of bullet to fully seal bore on ignition) These are normally very large heavy for bore size projectiles, and cant be shot to high speed. Generally anything over ~1500 fps starts to produce leading in barrel problems. Some jacketed bullets have a soft lead core, and the copper (jacket, or sabot, for muzzleloading purposes of this subject ) allows them to be shot at much higher speeds. It is also common for many jacketed designs (non bonded) to shed the jacket on impact, leaving the soft core, still moving at high speeds, and can shatter or fracture the soft lead core. This is very common for even .22 rimfire, long known to commonly shatter on impact. Most cast pistol bullets are of a harder lead. (Leading of the bore will still occur when used full bore at high speeds) But in a sabot, or jacket, can be shot at much higher speeds, and usually hold together better. the tradeoff is deeper penetration and a tendency to pencil through with hard cast, or more expansion/ hydraulic damage with softer, releasing more energy in the animal. Either camp has merits and followers, and also guns and conditions that favor one side or the other.

LarryBud said:

I guess my question was around the lead itself. Not being a caster, I've read that not all lead is of equal quality.
Is it wheel weights that are too hard for functional use? I guess splintering would be a long shot but not mushrooming must be a possibility. Is there a scratch test or the like to assure I wont pencil through?

Click to expand...

I asked Ron to test a few different bullets, each bullet was tested with pure lead vs wheel weights. I think what you're asking is what I thought would occur - the WW HP bullets fractured the HP off due to their hardness.
Here's one of the bullets tested.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=27354&hilit=52bore%27+380g
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=27354&hilit=52bore%27+368g

Maybe this cut/paste will work?

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=27353&hilit=380+grain+lead+45+caliber
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=27354&hilit=52bore%27+368g

LarryBud said:

52Bore said:

If you have anywhere close to the accuracy success I've had with my '52 500' bullet out of my 52 DE, you'll drop one for sure.
Best of luck and keep us posted on your testing.

Click to expand...

Do you home cast or are these available for purchase? What powder / load may I ask? Heading to the range today.

Click to expand...

Yes, and I'll be glad to send you some. Send me a PM.

Here's another bullet test Ron did for us. It's my 45cal 350gr HP that was made with pure lead.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-p ... point.html

Don't use hollow point / hollow base lead bullets for elk. They can ring out on you if contact with heavy front shoulder. A solid will plow on through. I've witnessed what both do, up close and personal on called in, pissed off bull elk at under 50 yards. The HP/HB lead bullets are not pretty. Also more powder is not always better. 80-85 grains of Triple Se7en or Blackhorn 209 will kill 'em dead.