Mountaineer Bare primer Question

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dave19113

dave19113

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I was able to take out my new Mountaineer 50 cal today and definitely loving it..... The thing thats less love-able is the removal of spent primers.

Does anyone a trick or 2 to make the removal easier?

Sometimes I can bump it out by laying on its side but most of the time I just pull the bolt and bump it on the wood bench.

I didn't want to try and pry it out with the bolt still in rifle just because the area was so small as it is
 
Recock the bolt and fire the spent primer again. They will usually fall right out then. Sounds like your head space might be a tad loose.

What primer did you use?
 
GM54-120 said:
Recock the bolt and fire the spent primer again. They will usually fall right out then. Sounds like your head space might be a tad loose.

What primer did you use?
Click to expand...



Fed209A.... The gun is brand new so I thought it was just really tight
 
Try a Win209 and i bet the problem goes away. If it does you will probably need a .005 shim or a Bestill bushing plug to use the Fed209A.

A Win209 should work just fine for BH209 also. You really dont need a mag primer in a Knight if its sealing well. Around .003 crush is the minimum needed. Simply measure a primer, put it in the bolt and close the bolt. Open the bolt and measure the UNFIRED primer again.
 
GM54-120 said:
Try a Win209 and i bet the problem goes away. If it does you will probably need a .005 shim or a Bestill bushing plug to use the Fed209A.

A Win209 should work just fine for BH209 also. You really dont need a mag primer in a Knight if its sealing well. Around .003 crush is the minimum needed. Simply measure a primer, put it in the bolt and close the bolt. Open the bolt and measure the UNFIRED primer again.
Click to expand...



Ok, will do.... I have a bunch of win 209's laying around... Ill give it a go on the next outing....


Much Thanks


D
 
The dry fire trick will get them out.

Think about adding a shim or two if you have any blowback. It saves a lot time cleaning up. The Knight are manufactured to where you can use a variety of primers. The Win 209 are the longest as stock. ( and a little thinner I believe )

I was unaware that it may help with sticky primers but GM54-120 knows his stuff.
 
LarryBud said:
The dry fire trick will get them out.

Think about adding a shim or two if you have any blowback. It saves a lot time cleaning up. The Knight are manufactured to where you can use a variety of primers. The Win 209 are the longest as stock. ( and a little thinner I believe )

I was unaware that it may help with sticky primers but GM54-120 knows his stuff.
Click to expand...


I havnt been able to get out yet to try the Win primers but in regards to shimming is it simply the case of adding one or is this something that needs to be sent out?

Also where exactly am I adding the shim to?
 
The shim is basically a thin steel washer that fits on the bottom of the primer pocket. You can get them off an industrial supply web site. I quick search here will give you all the info you need.

You want the primer to be slightly crushed when the bolt is closed. This seals everything up tight, keeps the breech clean and the system very close the waterproof.

Note that Bestill here on the board also has a custom breech plug which will do all of this and more. Check that out as well.
 
This is the walk thru on shimming a Knight bare primer plug by Sabotloader
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=28388

The first shim is small enough OD that it will not stick in the primer pocket. Its ONLY used to see how many larger OD shims are needed. Once you know how many you need, you remove them and tap the larger OD shim/s in place. Once they are in they can be hard to remove.

I would STRONGLY suggest trying a Win209 first AND checking them for a crush before tinkering around with shims. If you get a Win209 to crush .003 or more and add a shim you probably wont be able to use a Win209 again. Roughly .003 crush on a Win209 and a .005 shim should be super close for a Fed209A but it will be REALLY tight for a Win209 if not impossible to use them again.
 
GM54-120 said:
This is the walk thru on shimming a Knight bare primer plug by Sabotloader
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=28388

The first shim is small enough OD that it will not stick in the primer pocket. Its ONLY used to see how many larger OD shims are needed. Once you know how many you need, you remove them and tap the larger OD shim/s in place. Once they are in they can be hard to remove.

I would STRONGLY suggest trying a Win209 first AND checking them for a crush before tinkering around with shims. If you get a Win209 to crush .003 or more and add a shim you probably wont be able to use a Win209 again. Roughly .003 crush on a Win209 and a .005 shim should be super close for a Fed209A but it will be REALLY tight for a Win209 if not impossible to use them again.
Click to expand...


Ok, I gotcha... 1st thing 1st is trying out the Win primer then we will take it one step at a time from there.... Thanks for all the info :D
 
Was just able to put an unfired win primer in to measure.

I tested 2 primers

.303 before .300 after
.302 before .3005 after


So does that mean just as long as accuracy is on point I should just use win primers?

As a separate issues should the bolt be pretty firm on lock up? Im used to bolt action rifles being firm but smooth on lock up. This bolt is quite tight
 
With a .003 to .005" crush the bolt will be harder to close as you are crushing the primer some. This is not something you would do on a CF rifle unless it was a first time fire on a virgin case in an Ackley chamber. What you are after is a Primer "Seal" that completely seals the Breech plug directing all the primer pressure and flame though the flash hole. This will leave the fired primer completely clean except for a very small ring around the bottom. It also solves a headspace issue that allows the inner cup of the primer to back out of the outer cup which causes the primer to stick in the bolt.

Do you have a set of calipers to measure the crush on your primer as it is presently?

As for accuracy, I doubt you will see a change in accuracy till the flash hole is worn out.
 
ShawnT said:
With a .003 to .005" crush the bolt will be harder to close as you are crushing the primer some. This is not something you would do on a CF rifle unless it was a first time fire on a virgin case in an Ackley chamber. What you are after is a Primer "Seal" that completely seals the Breech plug directing all the primer pressure and flame though the flash hole. This will leave the fired primer completely clean except for a very small ring around the bottom. It also solves a headspace issue that allows the inner cup of the primer to back out of the outer cup which causes the primer to stick in the bolt.

Do you have a set of calipers to measure the crush on your primer as it is presently?

As for accuracy, I doubt you will see a change in accuracy till the flash hole is worn out.
Click to expand...


Those numbers above are the current before /after of a win primer
 
Based on your numbers, I think you are there.

I like a little more crush than what you're seeing but not much. ( .005 vs the .0025 / .003 you got ).

Yes, as you close the bolt, it will be stiff at the end as you put that little crush on the primer. Shoot it. If the breech is clean you're GTG.

I prefer Win 209 in all my MZs whether I'm crushing them a little or not. You are not sacrificing anything by using them.
 
Thats a good start and exactly what i was guessing. Now you just need to go shooting with the Win209 and verify the sticking problem is solved. Ive used almost 100% Win209s with BH209 while hunting. Never had a problem with them igniting BH209 in a Knight/Lehigh bare primer plug.

My Super DISC did the same thing with a Fed209A but the Win209s were nearly perfect. Crush in that rifle was .003 with a Win209. I wanted to be able to use both so i had Bestil make me a new plug.
 
dave19113 said:
ShawnT said:
With a .003 to .005" crush the bolt will be harder to close as you are crushing the primer some. This is not something you would do on a CF rifle unless it was a first time fire on a virgin case in an Ackley chamber. What you are after is a Primer "Seal" that completely seals the Breech plug directing all the primer pressure and flame though the flash hole. This will leave the fired primer completely clean except for a very small ring around the bottom. It also solves a headspace issue that allows the inner cup of the primer to back out of the outer cup which causes the primer to stick in the bolt.

Do you have a set of calipers to measure the crush on your primer as it is presently?

As for accuracy, I doubt you will see a change in accuracy till the flash hole is worn out.
Click to expand...


Those numbers above are the current before /after of a win primer
Click to expand...
Sorry thought it was someone else measuring primers. :mrgreen: :oops:
 
ShawnT said:
dave19113 said:
ShawnT said:
With a .003 to .005" crush the bolt will be harder to close as you are crushing the primer some. This is not something you would do on a CF rifle unless it was a first time fire on a virgin case in an Ackley chamber. What you are after is a Primer "Seal" that completely seals the Breech plug directing all the primer pressure and flame though the flash hole. This will leave the fired primer completely clean except for a very small ring around the bottom. It also solves a headspace issue that allows the inner cup of the primer to back out of the outer cup which causes the primer to stick in the bolt.

Do you have a set of calipers to measure the crush on your primer as it is presently?

As for accuracy, I doubt you will see a change in accuracy till the flash hole is worn out.
Click to expand...


Those numbers above are the current before /after of a win primer
Click to expand...
Sorry thought it was someone else measuring primers. :mrgreen: :oops:
Click to expand...



No worries :D :D
 
Re: Mountaineer Bare primer Question - Update

Was able to get out today and use the Win primers. Was able to pop them out much easier at 1st but then after about 15 shots primer were still kinda stiff to pull out even with recocking gun and pulling trigger. Primes are a little dirty on end but no where near as bad as when using fed 209a primers.


So does that mean Im still going to need to shim the bolt? Also, if I dont shim it will it cause any problems other than sticking primers?
 
One doesn't shim the bolt.

One option is to measure the W209 primer ahead of time; only take the longer primers. Some of the W209 primers are shorter than others. 0.003" of crush isn't much, and will allow leakage after a few shots when soot accumulates. Another thing to consider is chances are, whilst hunting you will never ever shoot your rifle 15 times, so you won't have issues hunting.

For me, the solution would be to take only the longer primers hunting.

From my experience, your biggest issue is the breech plug with the brazed in vent liner. It will wear out quickly. Soon you will need a new plug. Instead of shimming the plug, just purchase a good plug to fit your rifle from bestill.
 
ronlaughlin said:
One doesn't shim the bolt.

One option is to measure the W209 primer ahead of time; only take the longer primers. Some of the W209 primers are shorter than others. 0.003" of crush isn't much, and will allow leakage after a few shots when soot accumulates. Another thing to consider is chances are, whilst hunting you will never ever shoot your rifle 15 times, so you won't have issues hunting.

For me, the solution would be to take only the longer primers hunting.

From my experience, your biggest issue is the breech plug with the brazed in vent liner. It will wear out quickly. Soon you will need a new plug. Instead of shimming the plug, just purchase a good plug to fit your rifle from bestill.
Click to expand...


Ok sounds good... is bestill a member on here or is it a shop?
 

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