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james 14

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Finally got to an actual range to fully test a sabotless round and try out the Harvester smooth blue sabots.

After the intial fouling shot my first and fourth shots were the higher shots close together. Shot #2 was the one off to the right and I have no idea why except that maybe it had something to do with my loading procedure. Shot #3 was also a bit low (right on top of the "10" score mark) and, again, no explanation why. The lowest two holes were from my 270.
I was aiming at the center of the target. The small, highest dot represents 3.5" high which puts me dead on at 175 and 3" low at 200. It's not ideal but I'm used to being 3" high at 100.

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Next I moved on to the 200gr SST to try out the Harvester sabots as suggested by many on the forum. They were noticeably easier to load than the tan sabots and the pic below will show you just about how well they worked out.

A perfect keyhole:
FA4386E7-18FA-42AD-84B7-C88859888DC1_zps8h0gq34x.jpg


I moved back to the tan sabots and tried 120gr of T7 ffg. In the past I shot 100gr but was in an experimental mood. 120gr was very dirty and shots were all over the place. I moved down to 100gr and it was cleaner but still all over the place. I cleaned the gun and loaded back up with 100gr of BH209 which has been my longtime go to load. It has been reliable apart from having to wait 20 minutes for the barrel to cool between shots.
The first and third shots were together and the second shot (middle of bull) was a flier. The difference between them is that I used my thick brass range rod as a heat sink left in the barrel before the first and third shots were loaded. I finished up with one more shot with a sabotless 300gr. XTP Mag and it hit right in its spot (next to the SST shots).

788885BB-C158-487B-9827-E0ED8F311381_zpsmzejla6d.jpg


So I ended up with two loads:
200gr SST in a tan sabot over 100gr BH209
300gr XTP Mag on top of a veggie wad and 120gr BH209

The SST has proven reliable as long as the barrel isn't warm. I really want to trust the XTP but I haven't figured out the fliers. Barrel heat doesn't seem to affect it at all. The only variables I can think of are seating pressure and how aggressive the knurling came out between each bullet. I can say for sure that the shots I made sure I loaded the same all shot the same. It's hard, though, because when that sabotless bullet hits the powder it's solid from the start. If I had to hunt with it tomorrow I'd probably go with the SST based on past experience. I'm just not confident the sabotless load won't loosen on the powder and possibly cause a miss. I'll need to throw several more down the barrel before I can fully trust it.

Just for kicks here is a target I shot while scouting a couple of months ago. Three shots at 50 (middle), 100 (top) and 175 (in the bull). This was with the XTP over 120gr BH209.

8079B694-C8A1-411A-8DF8-259DFF3CFCEA_zpsukfz22po.jpg
 
The last pic was also laying in the back of my truck in what I could describe as a less than ideal version of prone position. I most likely wasn't getting a consistent recoil into the shoulder with each shot...one of the reasons I was glad to actually get the load into a real test on the bench. I actually never touched the scope adjustments at any point but it seems I could move about an inch right.
 
Maybe I missed it, (and I' know it's .45 from the bullets you are shooting), but what gun are you shooting?
 
cljohnson24 said:
Maybe I missed it, (and I' know it's .45 from the bullets you are shooting), but what gun are you shooting?

Sorry about that. I need to add that to my sig.
CVA Kodiak Pro stainless in 45cal.

I've been using the SST/Shockwaves for 8-9 years now with the only problem being barrel heat keeping me from really being able to get many shots in. The sabotless XTPs aren't affected by barrel heat but I seem to be getting some other fliers that I can't explain. I hope I can get another day in before bow season starts to put 15-20 shots down the barrel. I can probably single out the variable but it's a PITA to make a nearly 2 hour round trip to shoot a few shots. I'd probably pick up some other 45cal bullets to test just to make it worth it.
 
It sounds as if you have a slightly larger land diameter than the harvester sabots can handle.
IME the tan MMP's are tighter fitting and probably your best bet as far as sabots. If the 200 sst shoots decent, I think you'll find the 200xtp in that tan MMP will shoot beautifully with the same load. It has a thinner jacket and flat base that grips the sabot better...
Try the 200xtp and I think you'll be happy because they are cheap and work well on deer up to 2300fps...
I've used them on deer faster but they don't usually stay intact when hitting bone at those higher speeds.
 
For a tighter fit and hopefully better accuracy try knurling the bullets used in the Harvester blue sabots. I knurl all bullets I shoot in sabots. Some heavy knurl to fit tighter some light knurl just to grip the sabot to spin. I found that knurling sabot bullets pretty much gave 100% elimination of flyers. Yes, I prefer the SST for terminal performance and long range accuracy over the XTP. My opinion, others will differ. W
 
i picked up a new in the box 2004 kodiax mag nickel. the user guide says 100gr max for loose powder like t7. from time to time i see some folks loading more than 100 gr in these rifles. i am following the guide and respecting the 100 gr max.
 
cljohnson24 said:
It sounds as if you have a slightly larger land diameter than the harvester sabots can handle.
IME the tan MMP's are tighter fitting and probably your best bet as far as sabots. If the 200 sst shoots decent, I think you'll find the 200xtp in that tan MMP will shoot beautifully with the same load. It has a thinner jacket and flat base that grips the sabot better...
Try the 200xtp and I think you'll be happy because they are cheap and work well on deer up to 2300fps...
I've used them on deer faster but they don't usually stay intact when hitting bone at those higher speeds.

That's not a bad suggestion and I've killed several with the 200gr XTP. Since the SST came out I used it for the better ballistics but I've honestly never had to shoot at a deer further than 125 yards with my ML. The last year I used the XTP I killed 5 bucks with it.

wolfer said:
For a tighter fit and hopefully better accuracy try knurling the bullets used in the Harvester blue sabots. I knurl all bullets I shoot in sabots. Some heavy knurl to fit tighter some light knurl just to grip the sabot to spin. I found that knurling sabot bullets pretty much gave 100% elimination of flyers. Yes, I prefer the SST for terminal performance and long range accuracy over the XTP. My opinion, others will differ. W

I started knurling all of my sabot bullets a few years ago and did notice a difference but I still can't shoot them out of a warm barrel. I recently found out I was causing half of my problems by loading right after the shot rather than waiting for the barrel to cool and then loading. It seems that something as simple as 3-4 minutes with the range rod in the barrel to pull some heat away helps enough and certainly better than sitting around for 20 minutes waiting for it to cool...especially when I already shot myself in the foot by loading it while hot.

The harvester sabots were way too loose. I just laid my hand on the range rod and it slid them down. I suspect my barrel may be quite large. I put a heavy knurl on the .452 sabotless bullets and they still slip through some parts of the barrel even when fouled with BH209. I almost wonder if I could fit a .410 XTP in the blue sabot...or maybe the .458 Barnes Original sabotless. I wish I could get my hands on just one of each to test it.

dr1445 said:
i picked up a new in the box 2004 kodiax mag nickel. the user guide says 100gr max for loose powder like t7. from time to time i see some folks loading more than 100 gr in these rifles. i am following the guide and respecting the 100 gr max.

I'm not sure what my guide said but mine is an '09 Kodiak Pro so it could be different. I would likely remember if it gave me a 100gr max.
 
i tried some lee cast 405 gr cast .458" with dead soft lead and sized .452". with 70 and 80 black mz, one .06 card on top of dry lube felt wad, best i could do was around 5" 3 shoot groups at 50 yds. i had to knurl them to get some resistance loading them.
 
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