Black Powder pistols and holsters.....according to the DNR

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MrTom

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I have and hunt with a CVA Optima pistol and have always simply transported this gun in the van in a hard case where it is broken down into three basic pieces: the scoped barrel, the hand grip/trigger and the fore grip. If the gun has a load in it at the end of the day, the primer is removed but the load remains in the barrel. This is legal here in Minnesota. I've always just grabbed the beast and hand-carried it to the stand and back and on occasions that I want to take a little still hunting in. Yesterday a local CO was checking people for fishing licenses along the river behind our home and stopped on his way to his vehicle and chatted a while. Just on the off chance I asked him about Minnesota's concealed carry rules for black powder pistols IF the weapon is holstered. Eye opener here.

Someone here on this sight suggested a holster for that gun and I bought one. It fits the pistol like a custom-made glove. I mentioned this set-up to the CO telling him my uphill hikes will now be done hands free. But while he was standing right there I asked about any conflict with the state's concealed carry garbola. He said that loaded and primed or other-wise it was totally legal to carry the pistol in the holster as long as I am hunting. He went on to say that 99% of the tickets issued during the hunting season involving all handguns is a matter of not being able to have a HOLSTERED handgun inside a motor vehicle unless the OWNER HAS a current concealed carry permit. Transporting a loaded, but un-primed/capped, black powder handgun of any kind inside a motor vehicle has to be done in a hard case either locked or dis-assembled or a fully zippered soft case if the owner does not hold a permit. I was ready to just pop the prime out of the breech plug and re-holster the gun for the drive home at night or to the hills the next morning. Am I ever happy I had this conversation.

Assembling/disassembling this gun in the dark or low light is a bona fide pain in the arse so I think I'll keep the gun in the hard case for home storage and going to the range, but I am going to check out the smaller sizes of soft AR cases for running back and forth while hunting.

All states are different in their transport/possession regulations regarding hunting handguns, even if its a black powder arm, so it may be a good thing to check out before the season opens and the man with the star is a greater presence than usual.
 
The C/O said that most pistol related fines come about when hunters not in possession of a permit think that a holster makes the pistol appropriate in a vehicle....where specifically a permit is required for a holstered weapon. I'd have made the same assumption so I'l pretty darned happy I bumped into him and had our little confab.
 
QuinnTheEskimo said:
I like our gun laws better than yours, we pretty much don't have any. If you can own it, you can carry it, open or concealed.
What state are you in? Alaska? That's the way it should be if not a felon. In VA. we can carry open legally, but require a permit to carry concealed. I have a CCW permit so no worries.
 
toytruck said:
QuinnTheEskimo said:
I like our gun laws better than yours, we pretty much don't have any. If you can own it, you can carry it, open or concealed.
What state are you in? Alaska? That's the way it should be if not a felon. In VA. we can carry open legally, but require a permit to carry concealed. I have a CCW permit so no worries.
Vermont.
 
Busta said:
I use this case, and a sling for carry.


https://cva.com/product/24-pistol-case/

I had that same case but the stitching went to pot. I'm going to snoop around in Scheels to see what they have on hand for a smaller ar case just for travel during the hunting season. To the range or cabin and around home I like the pistol locked up in the hard side.

Its hard to imagine that a holster can cause so many views of a simple law. That's ok....I can live with it and it does keep everyone safer.
 
How does that keep anyone safer? Did the bad guy thats going to rob someone start following carry laws?
 
Might be easier to get your concealed permit and not worry about it.

I got mine just so I can put my 44 Mag under my topcoat when hunting should it start to snow or rain. That's technically concealed.
The bonus is that I can transport it any which way when driving. :D
 
With regard to carry laws everyone has to determine what they can live with. I don't want the responsibility of carrying a concealed gun. I have a .44 mag at home right next to my ear in the bedroom and it requires no permit there.

But you're right about the dickheads out there that don't abide by laws, however most of those killed by these idiots don't see the bullet coming in the first place....so what good is the permit to you if you fall in that category?

And Dr. Vette.....a holstered weapon while hunting here does not fall under the concealed carry rules.
 
MrTom said:
And Dr. Vette.....a holstered weapon while hunting here does not fall under the concealed carry rules.

It does if your jacket covers it making it "concealed".

Even if you don't want the responsibility of carrying concealed it might be worth getting your permit just for hunting. The class is pretty fun and educational.
 
Concealing an Optima pistol with a scope in a holster would be about as easy to conceal under a coat as a keg of beer. The CO was pretty specific about saying as long as I was a licensed deer hunter in the field and wearing the orange the concealed weapons rule is not something I needed to worry about. With the holster I'd keep my gun on the outside of clothing so I can get to it if I need to anyway, yet this is food for thought for others who hunt side arms.

I can see where you are coming from regarding being covered by clothing though Mossy and plan now to do some follow-up to my conversation with him. I can see where one law Enforcement agency, say the police or sheriff, can answer this differently from the conservation officer's answer to some extent and perhaps the ambiguity should be addressed in the hunting synopsis in the future.

I know that Minnesota at one time had an "open carry" law that allowed carrying a holstered weapon on the outside of clothing where it was not hidden from view. Maybe that law still exists, but I think it would open up a lot of cans of worms where paranoia is as common as doctors like here in Rochester. And to clarify about black powder long arms: even with the primer/cap/flint being removed from an otherwise loaded gun, it has to be cased....according to c/o. The c/o I spoke with also said he'd write a ticket on ANY black power gun not cased, during the deer season or in areas where bear seasons are open, loaded or unloaded.

And, Mossy, of course you are probably aware of the differences that each C/O might offer if asked about fishing regulations on the Mississippi River where it is a border water with Wisconsin. Ask six for a clarification on a rule and you'll get six different replies. So regarding the issue of a holster in the woods it does not amaze me that I might get more than one opinion on it.
 
03mossy said:
MrTom said:
And Dr. Vette.....a holstered weapon while hunting here does not fall under the concealed carry rules.

It does if your jacket covers it making it "concealed".

Even if you don't want the responsibility of carrying concealed it might be worth getting your permit just for hunting. The class is pretty fun and educational.

Exactly.

I often have my 44 Mag "concealed" when deer hunting in the fall, only because it's under my jacket.
Sling the holster over my truck seat so it hangs down in back, and I'm good to go.
Otherwise I rarely, if ever, have a concealed weapon. But, it only takes one law officer of any type to ruin your day so it's worth it.
 
I'm checking into the class just to get the education. With our fall schedule I don't know if I can get into one prior to winter so I'll likely have to wait until after Christmas on that. I believe that taking a class of this type is good for the expanded knowledge on gun handling and legal education one receives is prudent. I took an advanced first aid training with cpr instruction thinking I'd never need it, "but" just in case....well just in case reared its ugly head one morning and I am thankful I had that training. So, this concealed carry is something I should do and will if for no other reason than to know what is legal and what's not.

I've found a nice, fully padded/zippered soft case to transfer the gun to while traveling. This case can be locked if wanted. Out of the holster and into the case before starting the vehicle and I am good. Vehicle travel was my concern. The holster will be worn outside of any coat or loose clothing so I'm not worried about the carrying when in the field.

This fall will be the first season using a holster for this gun so there will be bugs to work out I'm sure, but I make enough pre-season trips up to the stand that I have time to get the general use down pat. I a friend and I made the hike yesterday to the stand but had chainsaws and pruner/loppers instead of anything fun. Its amazing how fast buckthorn grows and can obscure a shooting lane. We did a major clean-up of the two primary stands. Darned hot dirty work so I'm happy that the task is finished except for a little touch up snipping here and there. The plan is to wear the holster with the empty gun for the next couple treks up that hill to get any major nits figured out since this is always easier to do when time isn't an issue and its not cold.
 
Two thoughts:

1. Considering BP weapons are not legally considered "firearms", I wonder how any citation for a BP "pistol" might actually hold up in court?

2. It always is wise to pay close attention to the laws of the state(s) you will be hunting.

I always carry a handgun while out hunting (I actually just always carry a handgun). Open carry is legal in VA, but if I was carrying a handgun during bow or ML season I could cited for a hunting violation.

Our state has a specific exemption from hunting regs for handguns carried by persons possessing a concealed carry license, do no problem.
 
New York state considers a BP handgun, a handgun unless you don't possess the materials to load and fire it. Then you may possess it as a decoration basically. Plus we can't hunt muzzleloader season with a BP revolver, not sure why you want to but you can't.
 

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