Knight Red Hot Nipples - Caps fit correctly - go to end of the thread

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sabotloader

Keep Shooting Muzzleloaders - They are a Blast
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For the past month I have recommended the TRESO nipple in a #11 configuration...

Recently I found a source for the TRESO AMPCO nipple - this is a get nipple EXCEPT for one thing. The 'flash hole' is drilled to .028/29 which is great for the ignition of real BP or the Pyros - but I use T7 which takes more heat to ignite in really cold weather. To cure this problem I order these nipples from Buffalo Arms in Ponderay, ID. When I get the nipples I then drill the flash hole out to .031 - That works perfect even sub-zero weather. Here is a link

https://www.buffaloarms.com/1-4x28-tres ... -tre115001

The nipple in the center is the 1/4x28 Nipple

11-50-01closeup1-1.jpg



This is proving to be incorrect. I just recieved 3 new ones and tried them for fit. The nipple stack is to small to get a seal with a #11 cap.

So this point I am back to the RST-S - stainless steel! Probably another reason Track of the Wolf stopped carrying them.

The nipple works well for ignition - but not seal....
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

They do have a loose fit. I had to peen the cap end until the #11 cap fit snug. I never had that issue with others.
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

So this point I am back to the RST-S - stainless steel!

What is the size of the flash hole in this nipple, do you have to open it up too?
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

I had that problem. I haven't drilled them yet but I did address the loose fit of the nipple. Check out my video.

https://youtu.be/V0_Sbzy7A4E
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

I just drilled mine to match the TC Hot Shot. They are .035 so I drilled the Ampco nipples out to .035
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

The cap goes on the 'cone' of the nipple.
Ron made a good video;
1- AMPCO nipples were made from Beryllium Copper - can't say what Treso is making them from.
2- original 4 sided #11 rifle nipples from the 19th century had 0.200" squares (used square hole wrench)- most current mfg just use 2 sided nipples and wrenches, looks like Treso made theirs to fit 7/32".
3- I've seen as much as 0.003" (best I could measure) in ID of different brands of #11 caps. Treso are CNC made, so it should be an easy fix for the maker.
4- One can easily make the flash hole larger, but it's nearly impossible to make it smaller. I make mine 0.026" - but I use Black..
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

52Bore said:
The cap goes on the 'cone' of the nipple.
Ron made a good video;
1- AMPCO nipples were made from Beryllium Copper - can't say what Treso is making them from.
2- original 4 sided #11 rifle nipples from the 19th century had 0.200" squares (used square hole wrench)- most current mfg just use 2 sided nipples and wrenches, looks like Treso made theirs to fit 7/32".
3- I've seen as much as 0.003" (best I could measure) in ID of different brands of #11 caps. Treso are CNC made, so it should be an easy fix for the maker.
4- One can easily make the flash hole larger, but it's nearly impossible to make it smaller. I make mine 0.026" - but I use Black..

Correct information - I was really hoping that TRESO was matching the original AMPCO which they are not. Both the original AMPCO and the current TRESO come with a flash hole of .028/29 - to small for reliable ignition of T7 in sub zero weather. Because of that I drilled the flash hole out to .031 (to match the flash hole size of the Lehigh Vent liner) this size has worked very well for me.

Since I am shooting mostly a Knight bolt action - I can not shorten the nipple post to get a larger diameter offering a tighter fit of the cap. The firing pin will not reach the cap. But, for a sidehammer of a percussion gun What Ron is doing would work well.

This is the key point for me...

The big reason that I prefer the nipple stack to be larger in diameter is when I push/place the cap on the nipple I want it to fit tight enough that it actually stretches the convolution in the cap to almost flat on the bottom edge of the cap. This stretching works to make the cap water tight. I really do not have to worry about rain and/or snow getting in the cap or the breech.


With this setup I do not have to worry about water in the breech - it is water tight.

When Track of the Wolf quit handling the original AMPCO - they copied the measurement specifications and produce their own Stainless Steel nipple and it works very well for what I need. TOW #RST-S.

Hope some of this makes sense.
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

Like I said Hot Shot is at .035 so that is what I took them too. I normally discard at .038 for my guns. At .035 the hammer will not cock. At .038 it will that is what I base my numbers on. I got a platinum lined nipple and it was .028 and I could not get the P to go regularly.
The fatter diameter is a benefit to keeping out moisture. I hunted this year for 8 days is snow and rain. I was using a cows knee and a piece of electrical tape over the muzzle but the gun went off perfectly when it needed to. The tight nipple and cap fit has to only help.

The Ampco nipple is .632 after adjusting it. A standard TC nipple is .550 A TC hot shot is .585
I have some track of the wolf "hot-shot-RST" They are .634
The difference between the Adjusted Ampco and the RST is .002 Are you sure that is a problem?
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

Sabotloader do you have a unused Ampco nipple to measure length? I'm curious how much I shortened them to get that result.
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

I switched over to Treso's quite sometime ago and absolutely love them, before that I had been using the RMC Stainless nipples, 20 shots and they were VERY visibly worn. I have yet to wear a Treso out, i have 2 that are approaching 100 shots a piece with the flashholes stil only measuring .030-.031, I use real black powder and ignition is immediate (like a centerfire) The only problem i have had was with Pyrodex P, I had a really odd hangfire that more like fizzled? The gun went off but sounded completely wrong, and there was hardly any felt Recoil? The easiest solution for me was to Ditch the Pyrodex P and go back to my real Swiss Blackpowder. After that oddball shot i would never trust Pyrodex P in a hunting rifle.
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

idahoron said:
Sabotloader do you have a unused Ampco nipple to measure length? I'm curious how much I shortened them to get that result.

Ron, I just pulled a brand new one from the package and it measures .640, I also measured 2 that i have slightly flared to hold the caps tight, they measure .637-.638

I ended up flaring mine a bit different than in your video, i played around with a few different techniques and found a finish nail set that i had laying around fit perfectly inside, i screwed the nipples in a 1/4-28 nut just like in your video, i kept tapping and checking fit until i got them to hold a cap good. It's easy to go a bit to far, i know this from hands on experience :D
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

idahoron said:
Sabotloader do you have a unused Ampco nipple to measure length? I'm curious how much I shortened them to get that result.

Ron I measure a brand new TRESO @ .638 and a slightly used AMPCO @ .637

The measurement that cause me grief is the stack. And remember this is only effects me when using a rifle that is really designed as a 209 rifle and then converted to a Western. Even then the problem is not all that great because I can purchase a new breech plug and turn it down to the length I need to make pic/cap contact occur

The older AMPCO measures .164 at the top of the stack and the TRESO .162 - not much difference but enough to make a big difference when installing a cap. In simple terms the old AMPCO has a (slightly) fatter nipple stack

And I totally agree with IdahoLewis - the TRESO/AMPCO metal really does outlast a SSteel nipple.

And for all of you that have not watched Ron's video - really would encourage you to watch it! His 'FIX' is easy enough
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

Well Darn! After all of this... I made a phone call to Knight

The new Knight Red Hot nipples #M900013 have been changed to give a positive seal on #11 caps - including the RWS 1075+. I suggested this several years ago when I first started using AMPCO's - even sent them a demonstration. Well apparently or maybe something positive may have happened. I ordered 4 of them when they get here I will test and post...
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

sabotloader said:
Well Darn! After all of this... I made a phone call to Knight

The new Knight Red Hot nipples #M900013 have been changed to give a positive seal on #11 caps - including the RWS 1075+. I suggested this several years ago when I first started using AMPCO's - even sent them a demonstration. Well apparently or maybe something positive may have happened. I ordered 4 of them when they get here I will test and post...
Please do!

I have used Knights for a long time now and the last couple I got were all over the map and don't hold caps all that well or at all. The older ones I had held them fine. In one of my 32cals I went with #10 caps and they fit better but not great till some fouling is on the stack. I tried the AMPCO once in my MK-85 54 and nothing but trouble due to the small flash hole, Drilled out they were fine.
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

ShawnT said:
sabotloader said:
Well Darn! After all of this... I made a phone call to Knight

The new Knight Red Hot nipples #M900013 have been changed to give a positive seal on #11 caps - including the RWS 1075+. I suggested this several years ago when I first started using AMPCO's - even sent them a demonstration. Well apparently or maybe something positive may have happened. I ordered 4 of them when they get here I will test and post...
Please do!

I have used Knights for a long time now and the last couple I got were all over the map and don't hold caps all that well or at all. The older ones I had held them fine. In one of my 32cals I went with #10 caps and they fit better but not great till some fouling is on the stack. I tried the AMPCO once in my MK-85 54 and nothing but trouble due to the small flash hole, Drilled out they were fine.

Were the nipples that you received that red colored nipple (Red Hot) or the new Stainless nipples? The red ones that I have will not hold a nipple

And I do worry about the +/- Specs of the nipple manufacturer.
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

All of the ones I used for years were Silver/stainless in color and were always listed as Red Hot. These last 2 I got were the Red color and they don't hold caps at all. I even have to pinch a Remington #10 till I get a little fouling on the stack.
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

By the way, I ordered them though Amazon, but they were shipped to me from Knight. :(
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

ShawnT said:
By the way, I ordered them though Amazon, but they were shipped to me from Knight. :(

I have one in a package that I just opened (stainless) and I just tried it... the cap was tight as heck. The one in my MK that I am using now also works great. I have three others in the supply box and the caps will not stay on at all.

A forum member just bought a new ULite and his works great! I just hope the ones that are coming work - we will find out for sure when they get here...
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

sabotloader said:
ShawnT said:
By the way, I ordered them though Amazon, but they were shipped to me from Knight. :(

I have one in a package that I just opened (stainless) and I just tried it... the cap was tight as heck. The one in my MK that I am using now also works great. I have three others in the supply box and the caps will not stay on at all.

A forum member just bought a new ULite and his works great! I just hope the ones that are coming work - we will find out for sure when they get here...
I hope so too and if they do I will get a couple. All of the older Stainless Knight I had held caps very tight too and I used them in anything I needed a nipple in. Back when I was working on my MK-85 54 cal. I had ruined a couple due to the cone in the hammer, till I removed it. So I tried those AMPCO since they were highly liked by several here. Those really did hold the cap great and really required a firm push to seat them, but the Flash hole was so restricted I could not get them to ignite 777 till I drilled them out. After that I ordered 2 or 3 more Knights and they were still the older stainless and were great. One of those is in my custom 32 and it is great.
 
Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error

Shawn, when was the last time you ordered those Knight nipples?
 
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