#11 Misfire problem

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Dave C

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Recently picked up new White .45 and been working up a load. Have always had good success with Dynamit Nobel #11 caps until recently. Seems like I'm getting a failure to ignite on about 20% of strikes. When I remove the cap, there's a little bit of the ignition material(the green stuff that ignites) packed into the nipple pilot hole. I clear it out and put a new cap on and it will usually fire. Happens only about 10-20% of the time but it's enough that it makes me nervous to hunt with them. Tried some CCI's and it didn't happen but I only shot a few of them as my POI and groups were entirely different than the Dynamit's. You think this is a bad batch of Dynamit caps or is this a nipple problem on the .45?
 
Hmmm, never heard of this problem before. Have you shot the RWS caps before with your White or did this happen on your first trip to the range? It could be a bad batch of #11 caps from RWS, but again never heard of this before with them.

The only time I had an issue was with RWS Musket caps, but it was my fault. I ignored firing a cap off before I left the house to go hunting and loaded my rifle when I got to the woods. As luck would have it, my rifle did not go off when a group of does presented me with a broadside shot. Turns out oil was in the breech plug and contaminated the cap and plugged the flash hole. Luckily I was able to clear the flash hole and put a new cap on. The next doe wasn't so lucky. GRIN

Don't know if this is your problem?? I NOW always fire a couple of caps before heading out to hunt/range. Also, I swab my bore first, then push the patch down till it reaches the breech plug and fire a cap off. The patch should come out burnt. This ensures the flash hole is clear and helps burn off any oil that may linger in the breech plug.
 
Sounds like a damp cap issue. I'd chuck them and buy a new tin.
 
Dave C said:
Recently picked up new White .45 and been working up a load. Have always had good success with Dynamit Nobel #11 caps until recently. Seems like I'm getting a failure to ignite on about 20% of strikes. When I remove the cap, there's a little bit of the ignition material(the green stuff that ignites) packed into the nipple pilot hole. I clear it out and put a new cap on and it will usually fire. Happens only about 10-20% of the time but it's enough that it makes me nervous to hunt with them. Tried some CCI's and it didn't happen but I only shot a few of them as my POI and groups were entirely different than the Dynamit's. You think this is a bad batch of Dynamit caps or is this a nipple problem on the .45?

A thought out of the blue... what about your hammer spring - Doc ended up making two different springs with the second being more heavy than the first. Also the 1075+ is exactly that it really isn't a #11 because of the metric measurement is about 10.75 and on Doc's tight nipples you really have to drive the 1075 hard down onto the nipple to get ignition.

Just throwing out a thought...
 
[quote="sabotloader] Also the 1075+ is exactly that it really isn't a #11 because of the metric measurement is about 10.75 and on Doc's tight nipples you really have to drive the 1075 hard down onto the nipple to get ignition.

Just throwing out a thought...[/quote]

This is my first thought, that the cap isn't seated all the way on the nipple. I have had to put the plug in my lathe and gently sand the nipple so the cap goes on a little easier. I also agree that some of the springs pack more of a punch than others.
 
When this happened to me I switched to the Remington Magnum #11 caps, problem solved! Some of my White plugs will shoot the RWS caps, no problem. I agree a stronger spring is also a good idea!
 
I don't think the spring is the problem. It's pretty stiff and pulls back just as hard as my other White. I've shot these caps before(different batch) without a problem and I prefer them over the CCI and Remington's as they're a hotter cap and I get better groups with them.
I always burn a couple caps before loading my first load after cleaning to burn out any residues and the misfires occurs randomly during a shooting session at the range, not just the first load of the session.
 
Dave C said:
I don't think the spring is the problem. It's pretty stiff and pulls back just as hard as my other White. I've shot these caps before(different batch) without a problem and I prefer them over the CCI and Remington's as they're a hotter cap and I get better groups with them.
I always burn a couple caps before loading my first load after cleaning to burn out any residues and the misfires occurs randomly during a shooting session at the range, not just the first load of the session.
Well, there are only four things it could be. The nipple, the striker, the spring and the caps themselves. You don't think it is the spring or the caps so I guess I would be looking at the nipple and the striker. Pretty easy fix.
 
I didn't say it couldn't be the caps themselves. But, it sounds like no one else has experienced any problems with the caps. That's what I was wondering. The fact that the green stuff that ignites is compressed into the hole on the nipple though suggests to me that there is enough force and contact from the spring and striker to hit the cap pretty hard, no?? I was trying to get an idea of whether the caps could potentially be the problem. That's obviously the easiest and cheapest fix. After that, it's a matter of a shotgun approach with new breech plug, new spring, or new striker.
 
Dave C said:
I didn't say it couldn't be the caps themselves. But, it sounds like no one else has experienced any problems with the caps. That's what I was wondering. The fact that the green stuff that ignites is compressed into the hole on the nipple though suggests to me that there is enough force and contact from the spring and striker to hit the cap pretty hard, no?? I was trying to get an idea of whether the caps could potentially be the problem. That's obviously the easiest and cheapest fix. After that, it's a matter of a shotgun approach with new breech plug, new spring, or new striker.

Or just inspecting them and seeing if there is a problem, not a shotgun approach.
 
Dave C said:
I don't think the spring is the problem. It's pretty stiff and pulls back just as hard as my other White. I've shot these caps before(different batch) without a problem and I prefer them over the CCI and Remington's as they're a hotter cap and I get better groups with them.
I always burn a couple caps before loading my first load after cleaning to burn out any residues and the misfires occurs randomly during a shooting session at the range, not just the first load of the session.


You do not mention this so next question... when a cap fails to fire - have you pulled the plunger back and tried the second time? If so I assume that is not igniting the second time either?
 
sabotloader said:
Dave C said:
I don't think the spring is the problem. It's pretty stiff and pulls back just as hard as my other White. I've shot these caps before(different batch) without a problem and I prefer them over the CCI and Remington's as they're a hotter cap and I get better groups with them.
I always burn a couple caps before loading my first load after cleaning to burn out any residues and the misfires occurs randomly during a shooting session at the range, not just the first load of the session.


You do not mention this so next question... when a cap fails to fire - have you pulled the plunger back and tried the second time? If so I assume that is not igniting the second time either?


Good point! While I never experienced the green stuff plugged into the nipple other than the one time that I mentioned earlier. I have experienced after the nipple gets dirty having to pull the plunger back a second time in order for it to fire. Could be you may need to use metal type sandpaper to reduce the width of the nipple.
 
flounder said:
Dave C said:
I didn't say it couldn't be the caps themselves. But, it sounds like no one else has experienced any problems with the caps. That's what I was wondering. The fact that the green stuff that ignites is compressed into the hole on the nipple though suggests to me that there is enough force and contact from the spring and striker to hit the cap pretty hard, no?? I was trying to get an idea of whether the caps could potentially be the problem. That's obviously the easiest and cheapest fix. After that, it's a matter of a shotgun approach with new breech plug, new spring, or new striker.

Or just inspecting them and seeing if there is a problem, not a shotgun approach.
I'm not experienced enough to know what to look for to identify the problem. I guess I could mic the nipple but as far as the spring and striker, what do I look for to tell if they're "bad?"
 
sabotloader said:
Dave C said:
I don't think the spring is the problem. It's pretty stiff and pulls back just as hard as my other White. I've shot these caps before(different batch) without a problem and I prefer them over the CCI and Remington's as they're a hotter cap and I get better groups with them.
I always burn a couple caps before loading my first load after cleaning to burn out any residues and the misfires occurs randomly during a shooting session at the range, not just the first load of the session.


You do not mention this so next question... when a cap fails to fire - have you pulled the plunger back and tried the second time? If so I assume that is not igniting the second time either?
I haven't tried this. I've just popped the bad cap off, cleared the nipple hole and put a new cap on--something I don't want to have to do with a buck in my sights. :? :?
 
Dave C said:
sabotloader said:
Dave C said:
I don't think the spring is the problem. It's pretty stiff and pulls back just as hard as my other White. I've shot these caps before(different batch) without a problem and I prefer them over the CCI and Remington's as they're a hotter cap and I get better groups with them.
I always burn a couple caps before loading my first load after cleaning to burn out any residues and the misfires occurs randomly during a shooting session at the range, not just the first load of the session.


You do not mention this so next question... when a cap fails to fire - have you pulled the plunger back and tried the second time? If so I assume that is not igniting the second time either?
I haven't tried this. I've just popped the bad cap off, cleared the nipple hole and put a new cap on--something I don't want to have to do with a buck in my sights. :? :?

You are absolutely correct - but that re-cock and shoot could tell us a bunch... If it goes off that will tell us that it may be all in how the cap fits and installs on the nipple post which leads me to another question do you use a capper to load with? And the next question a capper with a solid back against the head of the cap...

Knight_Capper.jpg


You can see the back of the capper in this picture...

With Doc's nipple stack you are going to have to get the cap seated well and seated deep.
 
Sabotloader, good point about using a quality capper to make sure the cap is on all the way. My money is on either the cap is not on all the way or some of the caps are faulty for one reason or another.
 
flounder said:
Sabotloader, good point about using a quality capper to make sure the cap is on all the way. My money is on either the cap is not on all the way or some of the caps are faulty for one reason or another.

One other possibility is the top of the nipple has been peened enough that has effectively shorted the nipple stack and the cap can not be or/is not being driven hard enough to drive it further onto the stack. The stack gets thicker very quickly and the cap can not expand enough.

The 1075 compounds that a little bit because it is not a true #11
 
I'm using the same capper you are. I bought a new pack of caps and am headed to the range this morning. If it happens with the new pack, I'll try a second strike on the dud(if I get one) to see if it fires.
 
What are ya swabbing with between shots, Is there any chance some residual moisture is getting into your cap? That might explain the green material you are seeing on the nipple when you have misfires. Just a thought....
 
Update:

So with a new pack of caps, I probably put 20 shots downrange this morning without a single issue. Must've been a bad batch of caps.
 
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