Question about 45 cal muzzleloaders

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tpcollins

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Is the .45 caliber ML just a novelly or are they actually a fast, flat shooter? The bullets seem to run around 190-200 grains and should be able to get pushed well above 2000 fps. Thanks.
 
My personal experience is that they are about 200 FPS faster and do a fine job on deer.
The drawbacks are 200 grains is about the weight limit for accuracy with a 1-28 twist and the bullets and sabots are much more limited in choices.
There are now a few more choices in bullets for a 1-20 or 1-24 twist we did not have when they came out with those twists.
I personally prefer a 50 for game over 500 pounds even though I know that with the right bullet a 45 can do the job, to me the choice of a heavy weight bullet with a jacket is the best choice for heavy game.
 
I've always liked .45's but for the most part, the .50's won out and most of the .45's have been discontinued. At the ranges I shoot, it doesn't make much difference either way and it's been the same with the deer I've shot. Just as dead regardless of wether I shot them with a .45 or .50.
I'm still keeping an eye out for a Traditions Pursuit or a CVA Accura in .45.
 
I have gotten rid of all my 50 cals and the only thing I own now are 45's my Knight Disc Extreme being my go to gun. Yes bullet selection is limited unlike the selection for 50's but I have never had a deer walk away from a hit yet. The combo that works be for me is a Hornady SST 200Gr over 90Grs BH209.

I have a selection of .358 rifle bullets that I reload for a 35 Rem I am thinking of getting some MMP blue sabots and seeing what these will do out of my 45
 
A 1-30 twist can shoot upto a 275gr without a sabot. It can also push that bullet to about 2100fps without going over Westerns 120grV limit...So for the sake of argument a 45cal can do nearly anything a 50cal can do with upto a 275gr bullet....The only real issue with this aside from the cost of sizing equipment is its FAR easier with thin jackets and softer lead cores.

If you can move upto a 1-22 or faster your sabot load options increase. A 1-20 will stabilize a much longer bullet than a 1-28. Fury sells a 250gr 40cal that should work in a 1-20 no problem. FPS should easily be as fast or faster than a 50cal shooting a 250gr. Sectional density of a 40cal 250gr (.232) is far superior to a 45cal 250gr (.175) and its easier to achieve a higher BC. Even if the load had a slower MV it would retain more FPS/FPE at longer ranges. In theory you could have less recoil and still deliver more energy to the target at a longer distance.

Currently the 200gr SST is rated around .245-.265 BC depending on who you ask. Not many 45cal 250grs come very close to that other than specialty bullets and there is not many 300grs that beat it either. A 325gr FTX for example is only around .230 and a 300gr SST is rated at .250 which seems inflated.
 
tpcollins said:
Is the .45 caliber ML just a novelly or are they actually a fast, flat shooter? The bullets seem to run around 190-200 grains and should be able to get pushed well above 2000 fps. Thanks.
Fast flat shooters with sabotless loads or saboted bullets like the 260 gr dead center
Slow shooters with a rainbow trajectory with heavy lead conicals

so take your pick
 
This bullet is available from Fury. Its $36/50 and $44/50 in bonded. The 40cal 250gr is .915" long.
GetImage


JBM calculates its stable in a 1-28 or a 1-30 at 2100fps. My best guess is you could shoot it a little faster in a 45cal with the max load of BH209. The same bullet in a 50x40 sabot would likely be maxed around 2100fps and ive had terrible luck with max 50x40 sabot loads
 
I had excellent success with a 225 grain home cast 40 caliber bullet with sabot out to 150 yards on both target and deer with a 1-28 twist 45 muzzleloader, never tried it in a 1-30. Bullet is .725 long.
 

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With new bullet technology evolving daily, the .45 cal will be a great hunting round.
I killed a Bull Elk this year with a Cutting Edge 240grn .40/smooth blue sabot in my Knight .45 1/20.
One shot through the lungs and he went about 25 yrds and dropped, complete pass through.

I have a Mule deer hunt coming up, Will be using a White .451 Cali Special.(has a 26" barrel) :yeah:
 
Pittman has some new high BC .402 out also. They look similar to the Parker Match Hunters.

The 225gr is quite long at 1.27" so it might be difficult to stabilize with max approved loads of BH209....even in a 1-20. JBM says marginal at 2100fps but the .320 BC would be killer if it did. If you adjust for "tip" length it says its ok but they only have plastic listed for tip material. The Pittman tips are aluminum.
https://www.pittmanbullets.com/accumax- ... g-bullets/
 
I had both twist in mind when I had Mountain Molds make the mold using their calculator. It also has a 70% metplat of .280 that creates a nice permanent wound channel.
 
I have used this bullet in both 45 and 50 calibers that have 1-28 twist with great success.
 
If marketing weren't the beast that it is this wouldn't even be a question. There would be a better selection of 45 bullets and more appropriate twist ratios that would outshine anything a 50 could do for deer sized game.

I've been shooting 45cal for 15 years. All of my deer have been killed with 275gr Powerbelt Aerotips (in the early years), 200gr 40cal XTPs, 200gr SST/Shockwaves and as of yesterday a 300gr XTP Mag in .452 shot sabotless.

In a perfect world I'd have access to a saboted bullet that was either tipped or had a spire point at 225gr or higher - OR - a full bore bullet that was tipped in a bit softer jacket than the XTP so that it obturated more easily and was about 275gr. As I typed this I realize these options may actually be available. In a perfect world (again) I'd be able to run down to the store and pick them up easily.
 
I just about always use the 45 cal now, not that it matters at the average shot distance I'm offered. My chrony gave an average of 2218 FPS, 200 grain XTP, 115 grains B209 powder.

Last season I got a nice IL 10 pt at about 80 yards, not much time to debate as he was following some does. I used a Barnes on that occasion, very good mushroom at those velocities.
 
I cannot understand why manufacturers don't see the light and make fast twist 45's a standard offering. People go crazy for the old ones when they hit the market.
 
I prefer the 45 bullets always shot them with sabot in my 50 so I just got a 45 caliber and eliminate the sabot. 1 in 20 shines but I shoot bullets out of my 1 in 48 TC that are way beyond what should stabilize. Most likely just the open sights don't show up just how poor they are. That and keeping the range of what I'm shooting at close.
 
flounder said:
I cannot understand why manufacturers don't see the light and make fast twist 45's a standard offering. People go crazy for the old ones when they hit the market.
I don't think it's a very big segment of the market that goes crazy for the old ones. 99% of the guys using muzzleloaders don't know a thing about fast twist 45's. They know that Walmart stocks a pretty good selection of .50 stuff and they know that Jeremiah Johnson said you need a .50, after that, not much else matters.
 
tpcollins said:
Is the .45 caliber ML just a novelly or are they actually a fast, flat shooter? The bullets seem to run around 190-200 grains and should be able to get pushed well above 2000 fps. Thanks.
The trajectory gain is minimal and the energy is dropping like a rock.
This might help see the distances these loads are dropping with a 100 yd zero. The 200gr example was at 2200fps.

You may have to double-click on the photo to see it clearer.
 

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