Leaving gun dirty with BH209?

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cornfedkiller

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I see a lot of guys who are using Blackhorn 209 say their guns shoot a little more accurately with a dirty barrel, and I shot a bit this weekend and my gun shot more accurately and my groups stabilized better after a few shots, so my question is: with muzzleloader season coming up, what's the best option? I didn't think it was good to leave the barrel dirty with BH209 for an extended period of time, but I certainly don't want to shoot 2-3 shots each time before I go out hunting..
 
I keep my 209 guns clean and just pop off four primers to foul the barrel. I used to pop a 5 grain squib load off in the back yard the night before season started but stopped that. The primer are sufficient.
 
My understanding is that the base of Blackhorn is nitrocellulose but that there is 17 parts of other chemicals and that they are mildly corrosive.
I would not leave mine dirty for more than 2 days.
 
Went about a week and a half before I cleaned mine. Barrel looks fine and bullet still hit the same when I unloaded.

I shoot two primers and that puts the first shot with the rest at 100 yds
 
Mines in the garage where it stays cool and is currently still loaded without primer, I’ll let it go for the season like that and haven’t had any issues, longest loaded Time was last year all season didn’t get to shoot a deer and unloaded in back yard at 50 yards and point of impact was the same as a fresh load, biggest thing is probably climate I’d say


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You will see varying opinions on this topic. Here's mine:

1) My guns shoot more accurate on a dirty barrel. If a long shot is possible ( and it is where we hunt ), I feel better fouling the bore.
2) I have no worries about leaving a barrel fouled for the hunt, however, we hunt for 1-4 days vs an entire month as some do. Done so for years with no issues.
3) I do believe keeping the gun cold vs indoor then outdoor is important. Leave it in the truck or garage.
4) I've not heard of BH 209 hurting a barrel while left in for a hunt and then cleaned. Perhaps when left for an entire summer but not a short time.

That's my two bits for what its worth.
 
I've taken three deer this season so far, the first at the beginning of November, the third this past Saturday (Dec 2). My practice for several years now is to shoot and re-load in case I need a second shot. After my day is done I mark my gun as loaded (Electrician's tape over the barrel) and keep it in my garage for the next hunt. I have gone well over a month with a re-loaded barrel with no problems in corrosion or accuracy. I currently shoot 110gr of BH209 with a 250gr Lehigh and Harvester crush rib sabot, out of a stainless Omega X7. Keep in mind that the loading of the saboted bullet will push 95% of the barrel fouling down the barrel to the breech area. Not sure I would be as confident with a carbon steel barrel.

Your mileage may vary.
 
If your worried about corrosion and feel that your gun shoots better dirty then fire off a shot run one slightly damp patch down the bore with Hobs flip patch over run down bore with both sides of the patch followed by a dry patch doing the same thing . Your bore will still be fouled just enough to retain accuracy with not as much powder residue to aid in corrosion . I've found that I can hold the same accuracy with this routine .
 
You never mentioned what city or state you live in. If your weather gets damp, don't leave the barrel untreated more than a couple days.

Because I live smack-middle of the Great Lakes, I shoot my load every day, but away from where we hunt. Thankfully, there's hundreds of miles of state land here in Northern Lower Michigan for shooting either mid-day, or after the evening hunt. Then I swab the bore for the next day and that's using real blackpowder.

I never give it a thorough, full-cleaning all week-long. Just a wet patch of Butch's Blackpowder Bore Shine and a couple dry patches, prior to loading again. I have a long, slim safety pin that I fully open to keep the breechplug hole clear. For I may have fired 7-10 shots during that week-stay.
 
Im not comfortable leaving mine fouled more than 2-3 days. Fouling from a few primers is fine but even BH209 fouling under some conditions will cause corrosion. You can probably get by safely with one of the nitride treated bores for a bit longer. All of mine are SS so 2-3 days has worked fine for me. I would be even more cautious if they were untreated chromoly steel.

Pop at least 3 mag primers without any powder. Run a dry patch ONE time. You will be amazed how much fouling is on the patch. I pop 3 in mine the night before a hunt or range session and then run that dry patch once. Verify the flash hole and channel are still clean enough to function correctly.
 
Read an article online where a guy shot a bunch of loads using BH209, then left it for a year, never cleaned it, grabbed it out a year later and not only did it not even begin to show a single sign of corrosion, it still hit the same mark as the previous year.


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My experience with Blackhorn is short lived so here it is....I used to hunt with a TC smoker and when Blackhorn first came out I like many others jumped on it thinking it was the answer to corrosion and the day to day cleaning after shooting. I shot at a buck one night missing so I immediately reloaded and continued to hunt. Two weeks later at the end of season I shot it again to unload and end hunting. The next day I broke it down to do a complete cleaning before I put it away. In the barrel right where the sabot makes contact with the powder there was a permanent ring of pitting . No amount of scrubbing would take it out. I believe when reloading the sabot pushed the fouling down the barrel and at that point the pitting occurred. The gun was not exposed to moisture at any time. Blackhorn does cause corrosion and pitting if not cleaned. Also Blackhorn does foul breech plugs quickly more so than black powder and other subs....This has been my experience.
 
I agree BH209 is corrosive if left uncleaned for as short of period as even overnight depending upon humidity/moisture it encounters. The scenario mentioned earlier in which the rifle is fired and reloaded and left like that a couple of days has personally happened to me as well with the same exact results in a regular blued barrel. The pitting/corrosion appeared right where the sabot met the new powder charge. It too is my belief that BH209 leaves such a small residue in the bore that it's not very corrosive...However if wiped/scraped by the subsequent sabot loading, it leaves enough of an amount against the edge of sabot to be pretty corrosive if the bore has any exposure to internal humidity/moisture.
I've since changed my loading system in addition to switching to SS barrels and have yet to encounter this again.
I now sight gun by fouling with a primer then taking one foul shot without adjustments(usually with leftover loads which may have slightly less charge than the load I normally use in that gun). I then run bore snake down bore. Load & fire again, this time making my adjustments to scope. I bore snake again, repeat shot and confirm POI or make correction (if needed). If POI is good, I then take another shot without bore snaking prior to see any difference in POI(which I've never see more variance w BH209 than the rifle's group size).
At this point I pull BP, bore snake it and am ready for season. IF I take a shot and reload, I pull that load that evening and bore snake it.
I keep the sabot/bullet for my fouling loads...(sometimes I can even save the powder if I'm careful not to spill it while unloading).
After MZ season is over (about a week here in OH) I clean thoroughly and lube for storage. Repeat next year...

Also, I forgot to mention that IF I don't take a shot, I leave my rifle loaded all week with a used primer to seal it from the humidity of hot/cold fluctuating temps in my truck. I don't bring inside unless I need to bore snake and reload it. I believe that the single best thing I can do to eliminate humidity is keeping that used primer in place until I'm ready to hunt...
FWIW I've never had any corrosion from unfired loads even when left several times for 3 weeks at a time between the various firearms/MZ seasons we have.
 
cljohnson24 said:
I agree BH209 is corrosive if left uncleaned for as short of period as even overnight depending upon humidity/moisture it encounters. The scenario mentioned earlier in which the rifle is fired and reloaded and left like that a couple of days has personally happened to me as well with the same exact results in a regular blued barrel. The pitting/corrosion appeared right where the sabot met the new powder charge. It too is my belief that BH209 leaves such a small residue in the bore that it's not very corrosive...However if wiped/scraped by the subsequent sabot loading, it leaves enough of an amount against the edge of sabot to be pretty corrosive if the bore has any exposure to internal humidity/moisture.
I've since changed my loading system in addition to switching to SS barrels and have yet to encounter this again.
I now sight gun by fouling with a primer then taking one foul shot without adjustments(usually with leftover loads which may have slightly less charge than the load I normally use in that gun). I then run bore snake down bore. Load & fire again, this time making my adjustments to scope. I bore snake again, repeat shot and confirm POI or make correction (if needed). If POI is good, I then take another shot without bore snaking prior to see any difference in POI(which I've never see more variance w BH209 than the rifle's group size).
At this point I pull BP, bore snake it and am ready for season. IF I take a shot and reload, I pull that load that evening and bore snake it.
I keep the sabot/bullet for my fouling loads...(sometimes I can even save the powder if I'm careful not to spill it while unloading).
After MZ season is over (about a week here in OH) I clean thoroughly and lube for storage. Repeat next year...

Also, I forgot to mention that IF I don't take a shot, I leave my rifle loaded all week with a used primer to seal it from the humidity of hot/cold fluctuating temps in my truck. I don't bring inside unless I need to bore snake and reload it. I believe that the single best thing I can do to eliminate humidity is keeping that used primer in place until I'm ready to hunt...
FWIW I've never had any corrosion from unfired loads even when left several times for 3 weeks at a time between the various firearms/MZ seasons we have.



Regardles of where I leave my gun (inside or outside) loaded or not, When I come in from hunting or shooting if I don't unload and clean my gun, I put suran wrap over the bore of the barrel with a rubber band and under a spent primer. That seals all humidity out, It allows the air inside the barrel to heat up as the barrel warms, and due to the charistics of air the humidity will be less % humidity in a barrel sealed with suran wrap before you bring it from a cold outside temp to a house with a warm temp. I have heard of people keeping the suran wrap on the barrel when hunting as they say it causes no change in accuracy if you shoot thru it. Myself I don't know that to be true. I remove the suran wrap in the field after my gun has cooled down while walking to my hunting spot. I shoot BH 209, and use solvent and oil between every shot when sighting in, or at least once I develop a load and fine tune it. That way when I hunt especially in humid conditions I feel my barrel is lubed and better protected. I have poped a couple of primers before loading before a hunt.

The reason I use the suran plastic wrap is that the cold air you are hunting in has less humidity in it than air in a warm house. When you bring a gun inside out of the cold, the warm air in the house will eventually get into the barrel with a higher humidity in it, causing condensate to form on the inside of your barrel. If there is enough of condensation and you leave your gun loaded and hunt for a few days like that, it might cause problems. If it were not for using suran wrap I would probably keep mine in a garage also on a cold night.
 
Any Experiences with Corrosion leaving rifle Dirty with BH 209 & Bore Size bullets?
I’ve gone a week a few times in a Dry Climate & leaving outdoors overnight but was always nervous 😬 about it.
 
I see a lot of guys who are using Blackhorn 209 say their guns shoot a little more accurately with a dirty barrel, and I shot a bit this weekend and my gun shot more accurately and my groups stabilized better after a few shots, so my question is: with muzzleloader season coming up, what's the best option? I didn't think it was good to leave the barrel dirty with BH209 for an extended period of time, but I certainly don't want to shoot 2-3 shots each time before I go out hunting..

This is one of those cases - I will tell you what I do but you need to to do what you are comfortable with. With T7 or BH I may leave the semi-fouled all season. The real key is keeping the BORE dry!

Do I hunt with a squeaky clean bore - NO! I hunt with what I will call a 'semi-clean' bore in fact the 'semi-clean' bore is in that state all hunting season. I have been using this same practice for several years with no ill effects at all. Note: I shoot T7 and/or BH-209

I also would indicate to you that were I shooting real BP or one of the Pyro's I would have to revisit this whole routine as they are so much more corrosive than T7 or BH. Were I shooting a blued barrel I would also need to be more diligent in what I am suggesting.

As I have indicated - the residue of the powder burning is the corrosive part of the equation and only when it gets wet with moisture and remains wet/damp. No moisture no corrosion. I in my little world also try to minimize the amount of residue in the bore + neutralize the residue that it there.

I believe there are several agents out there will do the job... A few of the more common are: Alcohol, Brake Cleaner, and my favorite regular Blue Windex - the Windex with a minimal amount of Ammonia in the solution. Ammonia is a natural metal stripper cleaner and the small amount of Ammonia in Windex will not etch or harm your bore + as it evaporates it carries moisture vapor with it.

So... my routine is normally before the season starts is to run to the farm shoot 3-5 shots to confirm the rifle is sighted in. Then I will run a couple of Windex patches (both sides) up and down a few times in the bore. This operations removes the bulk of the fouling in the bore - not all but most. At the same time the chemical reaction of the Ammonia, Alcohol, or brake cleaner with the remaining fouling will weaken and mostly neutralize the effects of the remaining Sulphur salts, and potassium ash in the bore. It is now my responsibility to keep the bore dry while hunting. If at anytime I feel that I got the bore wet I will either pull the load or shoot it out and repeat the process - this hardly ever happens but it could.

This pic shows how I prepare the Windex patches...

WinPatch.jpg


This is a question I was asked recently and the answer I provided...

Do you guys clean every time even after sighting-in/confirming zero before the season?
Most every BP shooter will tell you to clean well each time you shoot and if you are using real BP or any of the Pyro's I would say good plan! I shoot T7 & BH and really do not do the then great clean each time, but it is something I have been doing for many years and have developed a routing that works for me. I will check the rifles zero in September and in most case t will not be really cleaned until the end of the hunting season. T7 IS corrosive but not anywhere close to real BP or the Pro's. What you really need to know is that the residue in the bore is what is corrosive. If you neutralize the residue as I do the corrosive ability is greatly reduced even to the point of being non-existent. So what it comes down to is I shoot a semi-fouled barrel. After shooting I will wipe the barrel with a damp blue Windex patch both sides. Allow the bore to dry if your patch is to wet and/or dry it with some dry patches. From there you can reload and go for it. BUT, if at anytime I feel I have gotten the bore wet while hunting - then I will re-do the whole process.

Here is another operation I do for cleaning...

Bore-Cleaning.jpg


Again this is what works for me shooting T7 and BH in any Knight stainless barrels - you need to develop your own methods as we all have.
 
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Clean the GD thing! Every gun I shoot, modern or black powder, is a prize possession. TAKE CARE OF IT! It deserves to be cleaned and pampered for longevity. I come home from a trip to the range and it is Cleaning Time. No excuses for waiting for later. The ONE time put off cleaning a gun was a match in Virginia that required a twelve hour dive home. So I "wiped it down" and drove home to Upstate NY. The next day, after getting some sleep, I found surface rust and pitting that turned a ten year old pristine PH Enfield into a "50% finish" "shooter."

I have had numerous guys bring me guns that "I only shot a few shots" and "I thought I would clean it tomorrow" that had irreparable pitting.

Shooting a gun creates a responsibility to clean it and put it away; they are not separate events.

JMHO

ADK Bigfoot
 
You shoot it, you clean it.
If you dont, you probably shouldnt
Have a gun in the first place.
Cleaning is respecting.
 
I shoot the ML I am going to hunt with each season to verify zero and make any adjustments if necessary. Take it home and clean it.

The night before opening day I swab the oil out, fire 2-3 percussion caps through it, load it with BH209 and leave it in my truck in the garage, never comes inside. It stays that way for the season unless I shoot a deer and then I repeat the process.

At the end of the season I remove the powder and bullet and clean it.
 
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