Is there such a bullet

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52Bore

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Doing a little reading, Is their such a bullet that meets all 3 classes of bullet?
I can really only think on 1 proven ML bullet.
 

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2 & 3 more or less, could be a contradiction of each other.
#2 asks for the bullet to penetrate as deeply as possible.
#3 asks for a controlling the depth of penetration.
 
Fmfdred56 said:
lehigh controled fracturing bullet would meet all 3
One I thought of when reading, but it never won any accuracy awards..
 
52Bore said:
Fmfdred56 said:
lehigh controled fracturing bullet would meet all 3
One I thought of when reading, but it never won any accuracy awards..

At what distances? Normal hunting distances they have proven to be plenty accurate for me in a couple different rifles. Long range is not something I currently do, so I can comment on how they would do there, or what bullets would be good.

Given how the Lehigh/Bloodline's perform, I'll take em any day!
 
Another bullet that came to mind would be the PR Dead Center. I have not killed anything with them, but reports from those who have seem to be good.
 
52Bore said:
Fmfdred56 said:
lehigh controled fracturing bullet would meet all 3
One I thought of when reading, but it never won any accuracy awards..

The Lehigh was never designed as a long range target shooting bullet. It is extremely accurate to 200 yards by the normal hunter and real shooters can shot it even longer. The bullet is a hunting bullet not a target bullet...

I can not do this but a Knight pro-staffer did... This was a 200 yard target shot with the Lehigh Bloodline .452x250 CF. And there are other really good shooters out there that probably could even improve on this

200ydTarget-Bloodline250s.jpg
 
my wife shoots the 170 lehigh cf sabotless into 2 inches at 100 with a peep sight
 
Point 1 - designed for Max accuracy at varying ranges. Without a doubt - the most important part in shooting/hunting.
Who knows at what varying ranges it's referencing, but in my mind at least to 250-300 yards.

Bloodline/Lehigh: Knight Pro-staff shot these at the 1st in-line match (Gordy, Barry) with dismal results - don't think they ever shot them again in a match. Haven't been to a match yet where they received any accuracy accolades, rarely see them even being shot in a match.

Point 2 & 3 - they do well.
 
Fmfdred56 said:
my wife shoots the 170 lehigh cf sabotless into 2 inches at 100 with a peep sight
That's good. There are a lot bullets that will do well at 100 yards.
 
I have no idea on which bullet but do you want to ask about a hunting or target shooting? If hunting in my mind for the NORMAL Ml hunter varying ranges is not going to be 250 to 300 yards. More like 75 to 150 in my mind. If a target bullet who cares about anything thing but accuracy.
 
It is an interesting question.

When my youngest shot a doe at 100yds+ with a youth load, he hit the deer right where he was aiming, the bullet penetrated to the point of just piercing the hide on the exit side, and the bullet expanded perfectly. That doe when hit, reared up on her hind legs and fell over backwards dead. It was quit a sight.

My daughter shot a big bodied 300lb+ Buck at 40yds with a youth load, the deer ran 30 yards and fell over dead. The bullet was found just under the hide on the offside. So, maximum penetration, great expansion, hit where she was aiming.

I shot a medium sized Buck at 304yds with my SML, same story as above, max penetration, great expansion, hit where I was aiming. All these bullets were recovered just under the hide on the offside.

It's interesting because all these shots meet the criteria listed but this is a rare occurrence with the bullet shot. Most are pass through shots, just like what occurred a few days ago with the same bullet on two nice does, one at 120yds and the other at 150yds.

The Barnes 250gr TMZ/TEZ is my bullet of choice right now but that may change after some range work with another bullet :D
 
52Bore said:
Fmfdred56 said:
my wife shoots the 170 lehigh cf sabotless into 2 inches at 100 with a peep sight
That's good. There are a lot bullets that will do well at 100 yards.

thats true we are hunters and have never had the need to shoot even 100 on an animal so thats the farthest we have tried them. the only animal she has taken with the bullet was so close it probably had burnt hair around the entry hole well under ten yards.
 
I know that I will probably get some heat from this but out of my 45 Knight, the best bullet i have found is a 200 grain Shockwave. I have killed dozens of with it deer from 10 yards to 210 yards. All but one were passed thru, and that one was poor placement. It will shoot sub MOA with a blue harvester sabot at 2275 fps. Is there a better bullet out there? Maybe, but the question would be does it make compromises in one area to gain superiority in another? The monolithic bullets offer better terminal performance but a lower BC.The big lead bullets offers a great BC, but gives up that flat trajectory. It's all about looking for a compromise that will fit the bill for what your asking. What fits me and my type of hunting to a T could be a very poor choice for other conditions. So in answer to your question, is there a perfect bullet out there, the answer is no. All bullets are compromises between the criteria that you listed, define what you need it to do best and and use a bullet that does that portion the best.
 
hawki said:
I know that I will probably get some heat from this but out of my 45 Knight, the best bullet i have found is a 200 grain Shockwave. I have killed dozens of with it deer from 10 yards to 210 yards. All but one were passed thru, and that one was poor placement. It will shoot sub MOA with a blue harvester sabot at 2275 fps. Is there a better bullet out there? Maybe, but the question would be does it make compromises in one area to gain superiority in another? The monolithic bullets offer better terminal performance but a lower BC.The big lead bullets offers a great BC, but gives up that flat trajectory. It's all about looking for a compromise that will fit the bill for what your asking. What fits me and my type of hunting to a T could be a very poor choice for other conditions. So in answer to your question, is there a perfect bullet out there, the answer is no. All bullets are compromises between the criteria that you listed, define what you need it to do best and and use a bullet that does that portion the best.
I have to agree.
The normal hunting I do is under 150 yards for which the 200 grain 45/40 Bloodline and the 250 grain 50/45 are what is best for me ;two places I occasionally go I load Shock wave 200 grain and up my range limit to 250 yards with the 45/40.
Like hawki said what works for one set of circumstances is not necessarily the best some where else.
 
When I was reading, my first thought on point 1 was Center Fire HP shooting - LR which is 800 -1000 yards. So, I put it into perspective for ML (BP & subs) - to me is about 1/3 of a HP, which is where 250-300 yards came from.
Considering an archer can effectively kill at 40 yds and a Round Ball to 100 yards with open sights, why shouldn't every modern ML with a scope be capable to 250-300 yards ?
Ronlauglin's 50gr testing has given us insight on pullet performance at extended distances - many bullet have FAILED, granted they may kill as they are only punching a hole thru the deer - so would a rock. So, these bullets that fail in Ron's test do not pass Points 2 & 3 of the initial post.
 
52Bore said:
..............Ronlauglin's 50gr testing has given us insight on pullet performance at extended distances - many bullet have FAILED, granted they may kill as they are only punching a hole thru the deer - so would a rock. So, these bullets that fail in Ron's test do not pass Points 2 & 3 of the initial post.

The one good thing about Ron's testing is that all bullets were tested using the identical media material.

In part....... from an article written by Col. K. C. Duran:

Before a meaningful test can be made of a bullet for anything except accuracy, the test medium needs to be "calibrated" against the expected target. You can blow almost any bullet to bits by shooting it fast enough into a dense enough material. Try firing your bullet into a flat plate of armor and see what happens as you increase the velocity of each shot. At some point, the bullet disintegrates (if the armor is tough enough). By the same token, if you shoot a "good" hunting bullet into a low density medium at increasingly lower speeds, eventually you reach a point where the bullet looks about like it did before you loaded it except for the rifling marks.

In truth, the only real test of a bullet is to fire a statistically meaningful number of them in "real life" situations at the real intended targets, and tabulate the results. The velocity should be varied over the "normal" range for various impact situations that could reasonably be encountered. But even there, because of the random variables in "real life" shooting and hunting, you simply cannot judge a bullet entirely on one, two, or maybe even two dozen shots (although if all of them result in successful performance, then it does point in the right direction, and if all or nearly all shots are failures, it doesn't bode well for further tests).

Water is a fairly good medium for stopping a bullet and simulating impact with a human being, even though handgun bullets travelling at the usual and conventional handgun velocities typically do very little expanding in water. They also perform the same in people, unless the bullet strikes bone. So the medium is a fair representation of what may happen to the bullet. Animal tissue is often leaner, tougher, and more resistant to the passage of a bullet than water or human tissue (mostly because people are not usually as thick as a game animal, or as muscular). To simulate bullet performance in game animals, something with a little more density would be nice.

Clay and water-soaked paper are two materials that are sometimes used, with reasonable results. But these materials are a little difficult to use consistently over a period of time. Water based clay dries out fairly quickly, and water-soaked magazines or phone books vary in density depending on how long they have soaked, how long they are left in the sun while you shoot, how tightly you bound them, how many colored pages with water-resistant ink or varnish are included, and so forth.

Also, both materials tend to expand outward and stay there, rather than having the rubbery resiliency of actual live tissue. You get a dramatic photo of the "wound cavity" but it isn't necessarily what you'd see in real life. Normally, you may have a hard time even seeing the entrance wound on that elk or bear. But the same bullet at the same range and velocity may blow a tremendous gaping hole in the clay or phone books. Are they presenting the same deceleration to the bullet as the game animal? Deceleration is the rate of velocity loss per unit of time, which will be feet per second per millisecond in real terms. It is what produces the stress on the bullet that causes the bullet to expand or blow up, or whatever it is going to do in reaction.
 
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