Triple 7 and the famous crud ring

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tpcollins

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I thought I'd posted this already but sometimes I hit the back button instead of submit.

Is the crud ring associated with just the 209 primer or does it exist with the #11 percussion cap as well? Thanks.
 
Both in some rifles. Depends a lot on the breech plug design and load.
 
I suspect the new star design of 777 pellets will alleviate the crud ring some.
The powder-itself is an easy igniter. So it warrants using a mild 209 primer with it.
Try not to use a flat-faced breechplug with 777. Concave design works better with it.
 
Personal experience I've seen is the tighter bores have the worse crud ring with 209 primers. The encore crud was bad and even the CVA Optima V2, but once I changed to Blackhorn powder that problem went away. #11 caps in the White larger bores ie: .451/.504 not a problem an no swabbing needed.
 
That crud ring chased me away from the 777. I was instructed by Hodgden to use the CCIM Primers, as they were the hottest ones available.
 
tpcollins said:
I thought I'd posted this already but sometimes I hit the back button instead of submit.

Is the crud ring associated with just the 209 primer or does it exist with the #11 percussion cap as well? Thanks.

The extent of the 'crud ring' depends a lot in what you might use for bore maintenance.... It would be my advice to not to use any products with Teflon or real petroleum oil i the bore.

That last shoot I did in the Rock Pit with a #11 ignition (RWS 1075+ caps) the hottest #11's - I took 18 shots and never ran a patch. When I am shooting Rondies I use T7 and do not patch there either.

With a 209 I still get a smallish 'crud ring. and normally have to patch after 4-5 shots...
 
sabotloader said:
tpcollins said:
I thought I'd posted this already but sometimes I hit the back button instead of submit.

Is the crud ring associated with just the 209 primer or does it exist with the #11 percussion cap as well? Thanks.

The extent of the 'crud ring' depends a lot in what you might use for bore maintenance.... It would be my advice to not to use any products with Teflon or real petroleum oil i the bore.

That last shoot I did in the Rock Pit with a #11 ignition (RWS 1075+ caps) the hottest #11's - I took 18 shots and never ran a patch. When I am shooting Rondies I use T7 and do not patch there either.

With a 209 I still get a smallish 'crud ring. and normally have to patch after 4-5 shots...

Wow, 18 shots? That is amazing and interesting. I'm having trouble wrapping my simple mind around that. Even with pyrodex and loose(r) fitting rounds and #11's - I can't go but a few shots without swabbing or it becomes a bear to load. A couple buddies of mine shoot T7 and man the crud ring is heavy after even a shot or two. One buddy shot 3 times while hunting a couple years ago and the crud ring was so heavy he got his ramrod stuck cleaning it.
 
WV Hunter said:
sabotloader said:
tpcollins said:
I thought I'd posted this already but sometimes I hit the back button instead of submit.

Is the crud ring associated with just the 209 primer or does it exist with the #11 percussion cap as well? Thanks.

The extent of the 'crud ring' depends a lot in what you might use for bore maintenance.... It would be my advice to not to use any products with Teflon or real petroleum oil i the bore.

That last shoot I did in the Rock Pit with a #11 ignition (RWS 1075+ caps) the hottest #11's - I took 18 shots and never ran a patch. When I am shooting Rondies I use T7 and do not patch there either.

With a 209 I still get a smallish 'crud ring. and normally have to patch after 4-5 shots...

Wow, 18 shots? That is amazing and interesting. I'm having trouble wrapping my simple mind around that. Even with pyrodex and loose(r) fitting rounds and #11's - I can't go but a few shots without swabbing or it becomes a bear to load. A couple buddies of mine shoot T7 and man the crud ring is heavy after even a shot or two. One buddy shot 3 times while hunting a couple years ago and the crud ring was so heavy he got his ramrod stuck cleaning it.

Other with a 209 primer - I have found that T7 burns much cleaner than any of the Pyros.

The 18 shots were with a 110 grains of T7-2f also. So I do not know if I was lucky or maybe I did something right. One thing I will add when I got home and started the cleaning process - the first Windex patch did encounter a very small build up right near the bottom of the barrel. Patch went right through hardly even noticed the crud.

Also these were sabotless rounds. Sometime this week I will return and do another round of shooting. Since I changed the front sights I have to start all over again sighting in - then some fun shooting after that...
 
I use to hunt with a Encore with 2 Triple 7 pellets and Barnes TEZ bullets with Mmp24 sabots . I could only get 1 shot then I had to clean . I could not reload a second shot in the field unless I cleaned the bore . Actually I also had a TC Scout that was also the same . Both guns I broke ram rods while hunting trying to reload . I ended up carrying quickloads with powerbelts for my second shot . Hoping a second shot was not needed . That stuff is accurate and cheaper but boy did it frustrate the crap put of me ! I don't miss that powder .
 
WV Hunter said:
sabotloader said:
tpcollins said:
I thought I'd posted this already but sometimes I hit the back button instead of submit.

Is the crud ring associated with just the 209 primer or does it exist with the #11 percussion cap as well? Thanks.

The extent of the 'crud ring' depends a lot in what you might use for bore maintenance.... It would be my advice to not to use any products with Teflon or real petroleum oil i the bore.

That last shoot I did in the Rock Pit with a #11 ignition (RWS 1075+ caps) the hottest #11's - I took 18 shots and never ran a patch. When I am shooting Rondies I use T7 and do not patch there either.

With a 209 I still get a smallish 'crud ring. and normally have to patch after 4-5 shots...

Wow, 18 shots? That is amazing and interesting. I'm having trouble wrapping my simple mind around that. Even with pyrodex and loose(r) fitting rounds and #11's - I can't go but a few shots without swabbing or it becomes a bear to load. A couple buddies of mine shoot T7 and man the crud ring is heavy after even a shot or two. One buddy shot 3 times while hunting a couple years ago and the crud ring was so heavy he got his ramrod stuck cleaning it.
Mike, We need to go shoot sometime. I can shoot all day without swabbing with any of my White rifles using Triple Seven. I sold my Encore after I discovered the White way. Seriously wish you were closer!
 
toytruck said:
WV Hunter said:
sabotloader said:
The extent of the 'crud ring' depends a lot in what you might use for bore maintenance.... It would be my advice to not to use any products with Teflon or real petroleum oil i the bore.

That last shoot I did in the Rock Pit with a #11 ignition (RWS 1075+ caps) the hottest #11's - I took 18 shots and never ran a patch. When I am shooting Rondies I use T7 and do not patch there either.

With a 209 I still get a smallish 'crud ring. and normally have to patch after 4-5 shots...

Wow, 18 shots? That is amazing and interesting. I'm having trouble wrapping my simple mind around that. Even with pyrodex and loose(r) fitting rounds and #11's - I can't go but a few shots without swabbing or it becomes a bear to load. A couple buddies of mine shoot T7 and man the crud ring is heavy after even a shot or two. One buddy shot 3 times while hunting a couple years ago and the crud ring was so heavy he got his ramrod stuck cleaning it.

Mike, We need to go shoot sometime. I can shoot all day without swabbing with any of my White rifles using Triple Seven. I sold my Encore after I discovered the White way. Seriously wish you were closer!

U and me both - I love to shoot! Just go out rest - relax - recreate! And it is more fun and can more formative if you are shooting with someone comparing notes... I know it doen't make good reading material when I post it - but I sure feel a lot better whileI am shooting and sharing it...

mike
 
edmehlig said:
I wished a LOT OF US lived closer! Of course, we all might wind up divorced. :lol:

Terry and I are so darn old and she puts up with my and my quirks so well! We just keep on keeping on!
 
sabotloader said:
tpcollins said:
I thought I'd posted this already but sometimes I hit the back button instead of submit.

Is the crud ring associated with just the 209 primer or does it exist with the #11 percussion cap as well? Thanks.

The extent of the 'crud ring' depends a lot in what you might use for bore maintenance.... It would be my advice to not to use any products with Teflon or real petroleum oil i the bore.

That last shoot I did in the Rock Pit with a #11 ignition (RWS 1075+ caps) the hottest #11's - I took 18 shots and never ran a patch. When I am shooting Rondies I use T7 and do not patch there either.

With a 209 I still get a smallish 'crud ring. and normally have to patch after 4-5 shots...

Sabot you have probably posted it before but what do you use for bore maintenance? I'll switch it a heartbeat cause I can only get 1 shot before needing to swab.
 
Ive shot my .451 10 or more times with 460 gr conical and 80 gr Goex 2f w/o swabbing, it did get a little rough to reload as in a little jerky going down but bullet seated every time.
 
twild said:
sabotloader said:
tpcollins said:
I thought I'd posted this already but sometimes I hit the back button instead of submit.

Is the crud ring associated with just the 209 primer or does it exist with the #11 percussion cap as well? Thanks.

The extent of the 'crud ring' depends a lot in what you might use for bore maintenance.... It would be my advice to not to use any products with Teflon or real petroleum oil i the bore.

That last shoot I did in the Rock Pit with a #11 ignition (RWS 1075+ caps) the hottest #11's - I took 18 shots and never ran a patch. When I am shooting Rondies I use T7 and do not patch there either.

With a 209 I still get a smallish 'crud ring. and normally have to patch after 4-5 shots...

Sabot you have probably posted it before but what do you use for bore maintenance? I'll switch it a heartbeat cause I can only get 1 shot before needing to swab.

This is my basic bore cleaning process... I believe it reduces the amount of 'crud ring' felt with a 209 primer - and remember the cooler the primers the less the ring.... And in my case shooting #11's virtually no ring at all.

If your bore cleaning process involved any oils with Teflon in them or any bore oil derived from petroleum it will take a while to get this stuff out of the barrel. So, switching to this process will not provide a quick cure.

Everything I am trying to do is to eliminate petroleum based products out of the bore....

Windex
BirchWood Casey 2-in-1 bore cleaning
And at this time I trying the complete synthetic Hoppes #9 treatment.
The only oild that I use in the bore are either Montana Extreme Bore Conditioner or Mil Spec Slip 2000

Bore_Cleaning.jpg


Works well for me - I would hope it would work for uall
 
Thanks at the moment I'm using Windex and Alcohol 50/50 mix and then the synthetic Hoppes #9 followed by Hoppes Elite Gun oil.
 
I have my own way of avoiding crud ring. I bought a whole case of Blackhorn for 19 dollars a can at the local Walmart hunting close out sale also 5 dollars a package for Shock Waves and 7 for the bonded.
Mike you are not so old I am over 80 and still trying. I put up my own tree stands and while I did not score with a muzzle loader this year I did get a 197 # Buck with a 20 inch spread and 4 doe with a bow. Had to use the ATV to get the buck out luck had it that he fell right next to my ATV trail.
 

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