Help with Traditions .50 buckhunter pistol (poor acccuracy)

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Scotticus

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Hi--I'm new to this site--this is my first post.

I have a Traditions Buckhunter Pro inline pistol .50 cal 9 1/2" barrel. It's fun to shoot, but I can't hit a 16" square target from 20 yards. It has a 1:28 twist, so I expect a prb to have poor accuracy (which it does). I have tried a load that Traditions technical support recommened: .44 240 gr sabot with 60-70 grains powder (loose Pyrodex RS). Still can't hit the broadside of a barn from the inside. I would like to hunt whitetail deer from about 30 yards or less, but am no where near where I need to be yet i terms of accuracy.

Any suggestions besides sell?

Thanks for any help.
 
I have no experience with a muzzleloading pistol BUT...if I did I'd want short, fat saboted bullets. I'd probably TRY the .429cal(44cal) 240gr XTP such as you tried but I'd also try the 180gr .429cal(44cal) XTP and the 240gr .451 XTP Mag. Another choice would be the Harvester Scorpion .451cal 240gr. I'd switch powders to either Pyrodex P or fffg Triple Se7en. 50-70gr sounds about right.
 
Thanks. I did try a very limited number of .45 cal Cheap Shot sabot with similar results. Traditions recommend either Pyrodex RS OR P--I'm not much of a black powder expert, but in light of their recommendation, I'm not convinced I need to go out and buy more powder. Do you really think it would help? I did also get the recommendation from another sight to try less powder so I will try 40-50 grains to see what happens. How about a light conical of some type?
 
Scotticus said:
Thanks. I did try a very limited number of .45 cal Cheap Shot sabot with similar results. Traditions recommend either Pyrodex RS OR P--I'm not much of a black powder expert, but in light of their recommendation, I'm not convinced I need to go out and buy more powder. Do you really think it would help? I did also get the recommendation from another sight to try less powder so I will try 40-50 grains to see what happens. How about a light conical of some type?

*Sigh*. FFG or RS grade powder is the worst you can use in a pistol. It's the slowest burning powder so you loose a lot of velocity in a short barrel. I tried FFG 777 in my Hawkeye pistol and was extremely dissapointed in the results. FFFG was the ticket for it. I've got a 12" barrel too. Your hemoraging velocity with a 9 1/2" barrel. FYI, RS stands for Rifles and Shotguns, while P stands for Pistols. Try some P and see what happens. Your probably not pushing the bullets fast enough. And another FYI, don't mess with all lead bullets in a sabot. Lead bullets eat FPS expanding. A jacketed bullet will get a little better velocity.
 
I built up a TC Encore pistol this year and had similar experiences. I ended up with 50 grains of pyrodex because any more velocity and the bullets started flying all over the place. I had no luck with the 200 grain shockwave, each one of those I fired keyholed the target. I moved the powder charge down and increased the weight of the projectile and soon I found the load my gun preferred. I settled on 50 grains of BM3 and a 250 grain tc shockwave. THis is just my experience, hope it sheds some light for you!
Darrell
 
Mr. White--I appreciate your input. (Although I am not an expert, I do know what RS and P stand for, though). The only reason that I was using RS was that was what Traditions listed as the recommended powder (they did say that fffg or P could be substituted, but did not imply that it would be any better in this gun). This inline .50 cal (although the barrel is very short) is built like the rifles and not like a revolver, so it seemed to make sense to me. I'm not concerned about velocity or expansion per se. My primary concern is accuracy. Again, I'm looking to hunt whitetail deer at about 30-40 yards. I can't help but think that if I have the accuracy to put a .44 to .50 cal. projectile into the vitals of a deer at that range, I will get my desired result regardless of velocity or expansion. My paradigm is this: I shoot traditional archery (longbows and recurves) and a heavy, slow arrow at 180 fps kills the deer just as dead as a light, fast arrow at 300+ fps out of a compound bow. The only difference is the trajectory and therefore practical yardage for the shot. The same analogy would be a .30-30 vs a .30-06.

This is a sincere question to you or anyone else out there:

Is a muzzleloader really that different (i.e. is velocity directly tied to accuracy)?

Put another way: I understand that 50 grains of RS will give me less velocity than 50 grains of P in my 9 1/2" barrel, but how does this affect accuracy (especially at a relatively close range)? Wouldn't a little heavier RS powder charge be the same difference, or doesn't it work that way?

Thanks again for advice.
 
Scotticus said:
I shoot traditional archery (longbows and recurves) and a heavy, slow arrow at 180 fps kills the deer just as dead as a light, fast arrow at 300+ fps out of a compound bow. The only difference is the trajectory and therefore practical yardage for the shot.

That and Arrows have a much larger cutting surface, they bleed out.

This inline .50 cal (although the barrel is very short) is built like the rifles and not like a revolver, so it seemed to make sense to me.

Quick question: Is this your manual? http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop ... Manual.pdf

Did a search for traditions to find their manual. This is what popped up for their pistols. And it says
Revolvers, Pistols, and .38 caliber (and under) rifles 3F/FFFG (standard granulation black powder or Pyrodex P. This powder is not recomended for Traditions inline rifles.

Now my pistol has a 1-20 twist and a 12" barrel. It shoots a 240 grain bullet with 50 or 60 grains of FFFG Triple Seven into 2" at 50 yards. For your pistol with a slower twist your going to need a faster velocity to make a 240 grain bullet work. Now a lighter bullet will shoot better with alower powder charge. My pistol shoots a 180 XTP with 40 Grains of FFFG wonderfully. It's a good plinking load since I can't hunt with it. I have to use the 60/240 to hunt (stupid Illinois reg).

In this case your hampered by three things. One is the short barrel. Another is the twist rate. I have rifles with that twist rate. The third is that you are required to use #11 caps. This is probably why in their catalog they say that the Buckhunter pistol was designed for small game.

Velocity, twist rate, and the bullet length/weight are all part of a 3 part equasion. A faster velocity in a specific twist rate will let you shoot a heavier bullet. Conversely a slower velocity requires you to shoot a lighter bullet in the same twist. To shoot a heavier bullet with low velocity requires a faster twist. To shoot a heavy bullet with more velocity requires a slower twist.

In other words you don't have the twist for a heavier bullet without giving it more velocity. To do that you need to get more powder to burn. By switching to a pistol grade powder you will automatically burn more of your powder charge since the smaller granuals burn faster creating pressure faster. If nothing else has worked it's worth a shot.
 
Ok. They showed the other manual when I clicked on the manual link.

I hate to say it but they are wrong for listing FFG/RS loads. I can see that in FFFG/P. FFG/RS just doesn't burn fast enough to be used in pistols.
 
Re: Help with Traditions .50 buckhunter pistol (poor acccur

There is a definate relationship with veocity and twist in determining bullet stabilization, thus accuracy!
The conditions that the Buckhunter offers, ie. 1:28 rifling, #11 cap required, & 9.5" of bore to permit the pressure curve present a narrow window for optimimum performance.
My recommendation, although baseless by any reference that I can link, is to use a modest charge of FFFg powder(45-50gr.)& a saboted .44 cal pistol bullet.
Experiment with various sabots ie. crush rib, fluted, even try a Powerbelt bullet! Some muzzleloaders are finicky in what they prefer. Good Luck and I hope you find the specific combination that your pistol prefers.
 
Re: Help with Traditions .50 buckhunter pistol (poor acccur

This post is from 2007 but on a side note many Pedersoli ML pistols have a fairly fast twist (1-18) and shoot PRBs just fine.
 

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