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Barbossa

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Hello I'm new to the site. Was searching for answers and it looks like y'all know what your talking about.
Here it goes I bought a Savage from a guy online. He shipped to the gun scope powder scales bullets and Sabots along with seven premade loads. He swore it was shooting M.O.A. with 47 gn of 5744 pushing a 250 gn xtp using the long mmp sabots. After unboxing everything I started by cleaning the gun,then I checked his loads. First red flag his 7 pre measured loads of 47 gn measured from 44gn to 48.8 gn (I measured with my Hornady auto charge scales) second red flag the scope was loose. I took the scope mounts off (leaupold) re torqued, lapped the rings and re mounted the scope (also leaupold) I torqued the action screws to 25 in/lb,dumped the pre made charges and started over with the book recommendation of 44 gn. The groups were around 3". I worked back up to his load of 47gn (1/2 gn increments)with the same results. Everything I have read says this IS the combo to shoot out of this gun so I decided it was the scope. I mounted a Nikon and got the same results. I then switched to n110 powder and short mmp sabots started at 37 gn and worked up to 42gn with the same results. I couldn't get the vent liner out so I ordered a new plug with the carbide insert and started all over.(even tried the 230 gn xtp) Same results. Best group I got was 2.5"@ 100 yds (all shots were off of sandbags) but was not repeatable. Yesterday I decided to try the factory recommended load and make sure I wait plenty of time between shots. Waited 20 min and the second shot was 4.5" higher than the first. I put it in the truck and came home.
Sorry for the long post but I'm about to throw this thing in the river. My shoulder is about to fall off. What should I do?
Mike from Tn
 
If you cant get the vent out it makes me wonder if its ever been out. Do you have anyway to measure the vent liner hole (flash hole)?

Its possible accuracy could be worse than usual with a badly wore vent liner.

Hate to say it but Savage isnt know for the quality of the MLII barrel. They can be rough as a cob and very temperamental about what they will shoot. Got any 300gr bullets to try?
 
I purchased a brand new plug with a brand new carbide insert from http://www.smokelessmz.com/upgrades.html just to eliminate the guess work.
I have not tried any 300gn but that's my next move. Wasn't sure if I would be wasting time/money doing so.
I do not have a bore scope but the best I can tell the lands/grooves are in good shape without any pitting or scaring.
One thing I noticed is the bullet/sabot are very tight especially the bottom 2-3". I can not press the last few inches with my hand alone I have to pad the top of the rod to keep the rod from going through my palm lol
 
Different bullets and sabots vary in diameter. You want a snug fit but not as heavy as you describe IMO. I thought on this site or Dougs they had a photo of different bullet/sabot combos. From that you might get an idea of what set up to use.
You can get there, the Savages shoot quite well for the most part.
 
jims said:
Different bullets and sabots vary in diameter. You want a snug fit but not as heavy as you describe IMO. I thought on this site or Dougs they had a photo of different bullet/sabot combos. From that you might get an idea of what set up to use.
You can get there, the Savages shoot quite well for the most part.
The List you talk about is at the top of the inline Forum, it is a sticky.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9798
 
Barbossa said:
One thing I noticed is the bullet/sabot are very tight especially the bottom 2-3". I can not press the last few inches with my hand alone I have to pad the top of the rod to keep the rod from going through my palm lol

Have you tried polishing the bore with JB Bore Paste? A T-handle would help with the Palm of the hand.
What stock does it have and is it Bedded?
 
ShawnT said:
Barbossa said:
One thing I noticed is the bullet/sabot are very tight especially the bottom 2-3". I can not press the last few inches with my hand alone I have to pad the top of the rod to keep the rod from going through my palm lol

Have you tried polishing the bore with JB Bore Paste? A T-handle would help with the Palm of the hand.
What stock does it have and is it Bedded?

No I have not polished the bore.
Factory stock that is not bedded.
 
Barbossa said:
ShawnT said:
Barbossa said:
One thing I noticed is the bullet/sabot are very tight especially the bottom 2-3". I can not press the last few inches with my hand alone I have to pad the top of the rod to keep the rod from going through my palm lol

Have you tried polishing the bore with JB Bore Paste? A T-handle would help with the Palm of the hand.
What stock does it have and is it Bedded?

No I have not polished the bore.
Factory stock that is not bedded.

If you use the JB Bore paste, say 50 to 100 back and forth short strokes, especially in that last 3 to 5 inches, that may solve the loading issues.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pro ... uctId/1200

Is it the Wood or plastic stock?
 
Plastic

Will polishing the bore help with accuracy? The loading part is no big deal.
 
Barbossa said:
Plastic

Will polishing the bore help with accuracy? The loading part is no big deal.
It will definitely help with the loading problem you describe. I would polish the heck of it till it load smoothly from one end to the other, but that's me. Not sure how much it will help accuracy but possible. Bedding the stock may help more. I don't have a Savage but most of those guys that have that stock call them "Tupperware" stocks due to the flex in them. Seems most replace them with a better stock. But a good bedding job should help with accuracy. You might check to see if you have any bind between the barreled action and the stock. If it has any bind that will cause it to fling shots around. I had a rifle once that the bedding was so bad that it shot groups about 8" at 100 yards. Once bedded properly it shot 1/2" groups.
 
Tweaking a "factory" MLII to shoot can be a chore but is doable. I have done 3 different ones.
1st is clean really good especially to get any plastic out of the barrel from shredded sabots. the load quoted by the original owner was pretty stout and some sabots may have been shredded especially if shot with a hot barrel. %744 is also about the dirtiest powder I have ever used in my SMLs and leaves lots of residue.

2nd is lapping the barrel with the JB previously mentioned. I would give a minimum of 200 strokes each way and certainly pay extra effort to get the irregular spots out.

3rd is to bed the action in the stock. Lots of info on bedding and I have done it for many rifles and it always helps, some rifles more than others.

4th is shoot it w/o the ramrod in the gun. I use a "range rod" at the range and have a foldable rod just for loading when hunting.

5th is to develop a good load for the rifle. I personally use H4198 or RL7 in my SMLs. In my 50s I shoot .458 bullets of at least 300 grains and they give the best accuracy. The rifles don't seem to know any difference between any of the brands so long as they are .458 cal. It also shoots the 325 FTX real good. For sabot I use the orange or black crush rib whichever gives the "best" loading resistance, firm but not tight or hard to load.

6 make sure the front scope base is not contacting the recoil lug.

You can also go over to Dougs message board for the best on Savage SML information.
http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/ Those guys are nice and plenty help available.

W
 
44gr 5744, short MMP and .452 250XTP is an MOA equation in that rifle.

I think your issue is most likely the stock's flexibility and how you're shooting it off bags.
First- as said remove ramrod when shooting off bags.
IF you have the cheap plastic stock (it's flexible as heck and you should replace with quality one/get bedded when you can)then by all means ensure the bag is positioned as far back as possible on the forearm as possible to minimize its spring effect.

-Also you said the action is torqued to 25"# and that's too light.
1. Loosen up the front and middle bolts but leave threaded in while rifle is upright with butt on the floor.
2. Give a little bounce to ensure barrel is settled against recoil lug.
3. Squeeze forearm against barrel to center barrel in stock while tightening front screw to 35"# with a torque wrench.
4. Still squeezing that forearm & barrel together, tighten the middle screw also to 35"#.

35in# is what Savage recommends for plastic non-pillared stocks. Laminate and wood stocks with pillars can take more torque without damaging the stock.

When I first got my 10ML2 I had similar results and wasted countless hours on loads trying to get consistency and found that the issue was the POS plastic stock moving all over the place. Bought a used laminate from a friend and slapped it on without bedding it and instantly my groups were under MOA and consistent.
 
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