#12 Caps?

Does anyone know where I can buy #12 percussion caps? I have a really nice antique 12 bore rifle that takes them. Have part of a tin, but would like to shoot the gun more than a couple dozen times.

I'd change out the nipple but for two problems: it's obviously been in the gun for more than 100 years (150?) and isn't cooperating with my nipple wrench; and its an offset nipple. Still haven't figured out what that's about, but it's clearly required for the hammer to strike the nipple properly.

Thanks

I have never seen a tin of #12 caps. I would be interested in picture of the shotgun and especially the nipple area. Many of the old shotguns had musket caps. But like I said, never heard of a #12. Very interesting.

Remington use to have the #12 caps years ago..but I do not know if they produce them any more..I think they went on some of the older pistols also...they may be hard to find now...

from another forum.. The No. 12 nipples are made for original and reproduction Colt Walker and Dragoons....

cayuga said:

I would be interested in picture of the shotgun and especially the nipple area.

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Here are a couple of pics of the rifle. When I get a chance I'll dig the thing out of the safe and post a couple more of the nipple area.





The barrel measures 1" across the flats. With a pair of calipers the groove measures .702 and the bore .652.

Now all I need is a 16ga hollow-base slug mold...

Two more pics.

One of the hammer down, one showing the offset nipple.

What a great looking rifle. When I first saw the rifling, I thought of a Whitworth rifle for some reason. That is a really great rifle. I hope you can get the #12 nipple out and put in a #11 or a musket nipple. Maybe a machine shop or metal worker could help you if you feel not up to the task. I know when something is tricky, I head to my friend who is a machinist. If it's metal, he can fix it.

The barrel and lock say "JNO Archbold". Who that might have been is beyond me.

It's fun to shoot. I have been using a .620 round ball and two .020 patches, backed by 100 gr FFg. The gun only weighs about 5 lbs and it recoils like a .40-65 with medium loads.

I've done a fair bit of machine work over the years but I'm a bit hesitant to lean on the nipple, mostly because there's not much need to pull it. It's in good shape so I think I'll try shooting it with musket caps and see what happens. It's not like I'm going to shoot it a lot anyway unless we start having stake matches again

Wow, that is a nice looking gun! I've never heard of #12 caps either.
I guess worst case is you could pay a good gunsmith get the nipple out and I would think you could certainly have a new one made by someone. Maybe someone here will have some info for you. As you said, you aren't shooting it much anyhow...but I'm sure you want to get it out and clean, etc., if its not too salty. Good luck, keep us posted on your progress.

I too think 12's were for large pistols.
I know they made 10's as well.
If the threads on your offset nipple are 1/4-28; you might be in luck! I made this one a few years ago for a rifle. I think the offset is 0.050".
Or, you can always turn/grind the current nipple to fit a #11.

Learn something new every day!! Beautiful old gun!!

I emailed a friend in England who is retired and worked for 40+ years in the gun trade and mostly with Westley Richards - so I take what he says true...
He said the differences in 10, 11, 12 are only slight different in sizes (diameter, skirt length, thinkness, etc) as their was/is NO standard for caps - even today we see #11 differ from Mfg. He too recalled #12 for pistols.
He did think Remington still made all 3. Maybe someone can find some.

Getting in a bit late here but wanted to wish you good luck. Very nice and cool gun you have!

I did not find any Archbold in any of my gun books. Neither did my friend in England. Is there an address on the barrel? Also, are their any proof marks on the barrel (under side)? Guessing on Birmingham proof and not London based on the style of the rifle.
It looks light in weight, so I'm also guessing a RB (slow twist) with a light charge?

Squeezing an #11 cap doesn't work?

52Bore said:

I did not find any Archbold in any of my gun books. Neither did my friend in England. Is there an address on the barrel?

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The barrel is marked "JNO. Archbold . Maker . Rickergate . Carlisle" (with the periods as shown above)

52Bore said:

Also, are their any proof marks on the barrel (under side)? Guessing on Birmingham proof and not London based on the style of the rifle.

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Two proofs, shown in the pic below. I don't know proofs, but I'm guessing that the BPC (or is it BCP) means Birmingham.

52Bore said:

It looks light in weight, so I'm also guessing a RB (slow twist) with a light charge?

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The gun weighs around 5 or 6 lbs. I haven't measured the twist. I shot it with a heavily patched .620 RB and 100gr FFg. The felt recoil was less than my .54 Hawken, which weighs in around 9 lbs, and I was dinging a 6" plate at 50 yards often enough to know the rifle liked the load and the misses were my fault (which is usually the case).

Muley Hunter said:

Squeezing an #11 cap doesn't work?

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Would that it were that easy. #12 caps are larger than #11.

Of course they are. Sorry for my brain fade.

smokejones:
Comment from a former/retired Westley Richards employee about your 12b.

Your pal's rifle is certainly from the Trade in Brum, and was probably only retailed by John Archbold in Carlisle. I cannot remember seeing or hearing of any other guns by him, and suspect he was more of a general dealer/ironmonger. He seems to have started up in business during 1842 in Scotch Street, but would appear to have given up by 1858. These dates would tie in very well with the style and type of rifle depicted.

Wow, that is great historical information.
I love having a better sense of the history of the guns I own.

Thank you and please convey my thanks to your friend as well.

This is much appreciated.

Not sure what's involved in mailing them but I have a tin n half of 12 I can send you. Got them without realizing the size difference they are winchester