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dbowling said:
ease of use and really big game- conical
for med size game-roundball
I meant 58 - still feel the same - I'll assume so..
 
In the .58 I prefer the RB even for elk. It has the diameter and ball weight to really hammer game. With Swiss or Olde Eynsford powder you can get so much better velocity (+200 fps) than in the old days of red can Goex or Pyrodex. I use bullets in some of my .54 rifles but that is my stopping point, beyond the .54 the RB is all that's needed.
 
Doing a little reading on 58 RB. Kinda surprised at the sudden loss of energy - like from 1800 ft-lbs to 800 ft-lbs in 100 yds.
RB weight 270gr, estimate MV 1700 and BC of 0.1. If anyone has any accurate data, please share.
 
52Bore said:
Doing a little reading on 58 RB. Kinda surprised at the sudden loss of energy - like from 1800 ft-lbs to 800 ft-lbs in 100 yds.
RB weight 270gr, estimate MV 1700 and BC of 0.1. If anyone has any accurate data, please share.

This is precisely why Roundball has never interested me, A Turd (no matter the shape) would have a higher BC
 
Some load data i found on the 58 Cal Roundball

Goex 2F Powder

80 Grains of powder 1,186 fps at the muzzle with 876 Ft lbs of energy (At the Muzzle)
@100 Yards the velocity has dropped to 826 Fps, with only 419 Ft lbs of energy

140 Grains of Goex 2F, a STOUT load.
1,515 Fps Muzzle velocity, with 1,417 ft lbs of MUZZLE Energy
@100 Yards the Velocity has dropped to 947 Fps, and the Energy has dropped to 533 Ft lbs

Less than Stellar in my opinion, Even the 140 Grain load. I am NOT saying they won’t/don’t kill, But ANY roundball would be the furthest from my choice of projectile to hunt with. To each his own
 
If you have never used a bigger bore (.58, .62, .66, .69, .72) RB rifle on game it's easy to look at paper ballistics and dismiss it. The reality is they crush game. Paper doesn't always tell the story i.e. according to aerospace engineers bumble bees shouldn't be able to fly. I have many fast twist .45 traditional rifles like repro Whitworths, Volunteers, Rigby target, Alex Henry, etc. and have shot game with them all. The frontal area of a big round ball really hammers game.
 
admiral said:
If you have never used a bigger bore (.58, .62, .66, .69, .72) RB rifle on game it's easy to look at paper ballistics and dismiss it. The reality is they crush game. Paper doesn't always tell the story i.e. according to aerospace engineers bumble bees shouldn't be able to fly. I have many fast twist .45 traditional rifles like repro Whitworths, Volunteers, Rigby target, Alex Henry, etc. and have shot game with them all. The frontal area of a big round ball really hammers game.


I dont disagree their killing power, Limited Range and good Shot placement is what i see with Roundball. I personally prefer a Big Wide Meplat bullet, But have nothing against a guy that chooses Roundball, Diversity in our sport!
 
Still learning, one thing to remember for this discussion - both RB and Conical have the same diameter, so the initial 'impact/hit' to the animal is the same.
I'm also interested in the trajectory and energy (say within 150 yards max) of the 2 different projectiles, 270gr RB vs a 500gr (+/-) conical. MV to me has little value as I'll test for what gives me the best group - until then this is just theoretical stuff..
 
They are only the same if you shoot a wadcutter conical. That's why idaho Lewis wants that big meplat. If you shoot longer ranges at game, which to me is 100-150 yards average shot with a traditional iron sighted rifle, that's not the RB's forte. The fast twists .451's shine at that distance and are my choice. My main point to all this is: 99.9% of muzzleloading hunters have never shot deer/elk/moose with a big bore (.58 and up) RB rifle. They just assume a RB sucks because paper ballistics say so. To see it first hand a few times changes perspectives. As an aside I'm not a fan of .45 or .50 RB's for deer. I know countless deer have been killed with them but I've never been impressed overall.
 
admiral said:
They are only the same if you shoot a wadcutter conical. That's why idaho Lewis wants that big meplat. If you shoot longer ranges at game, which to me is 100-150 yards average shot with a traditional iron sighted rifle, that's not the RB's forte. The fast twists .451's shine at that distance and are my choice. My main point to all this is: 99.9% of muzzleloading hunters have never shot deer/elk/moose with a big bore (.58 and up) RB rifle. They just assume a RB sucks because paper ballistics say so. To see it first hand a few times changes perspectives. As an aside I'm not a fan of .45 or .50 RB's for deer. I know countless deer have been killed with them but I've never been impressed overall.


admiral, If i were gonna use a Roundball i would definitely go big! I was in October Country awhile back and the owner had a Video of himself shooting 5 Gallon jugs of Water/Ice, I can’t remember the Caliber? but it was BIG! Like 72 Cal, or 8 Bore? Yardage looked to be 75-100 yards, That Big Roundball was devastating on those jugs! He also had a display of Roundballs i took a picture of, the 4 Bore Ball was a GIANT! The Powder charge in the 4 Bore was also HUGE, he said recoil was HORRID, i wonder why? LOL

Here is that display
 
I believe a nearly one inch quarter pound ball deserves a substantially better mount than my shoulder. :shock:
 
waarp8nt said:
I believe a nearly one inch quarter pound ball deserves a substantially better mount than my shoulder. :shock:


The owner of October Country told me the charge was around 400 Grains of 2F under said ball! You would probably want to park fairly close by or you might forget where your car is? :lol:
 
This is off topic a bit but kinda funny! I was in a Pawn shop many years ago that was run by an older Retired gentleman, i picked up a Ruger No1 in 458 Win Mag and was looking it over (i have always liked the BIG BOOMERS) The old man noticed that everything i picked up was big Calibers, he said ‘you like them big kickin guns huh? I agreed with him, he kindly offered to show me a BIG rifle he had in a back room, he returned with a case, opened it and there was a FANCY Weatherby Mark V, I asked him the Caliber? He said 460 Weatherby, I’ll never forget him tipping his glasses down on his nose and looking at me over the rim, With a very serious look, he said ‘Son, you shoot this thing and you will forget where you parked your car’ :lol: I just about died laughing! I can stil see that Ole guy telling me that! :lol:
 
Looking at the KO values, I thought it would have been equal to the conical.
Taylors KO value of these 58's:
RB 38
Conical 59
.243 = 11, 30-06 = 21, .416 RemMag = 56
 
52Bore said:
Looking at the KO values, I thought it would have been equal to the conical.
Taylors KO value of these 58's:
RB 38
Conical 59
.243 = 11, 30-06 = 21, .416 RemMag = 56

How much does the Conical weigh?
 
Idaholewis said:
52Bore said:
Looking at the KO values, I thought it would have been equal to the conical.
Taylors KO value of these 58's:
RB 38
Conical 59
.243 = 11, 30-06 = 21, .416 RemMag = 56

How much does the Conical weigh?
I used 550gr in the KO value. Figured I'd be somewhere between 500 - 550gr.
The barrel is 1:48, so I'm kinda hoping to play with both Conical and RB..
 

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