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Fast twist but flintlock

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mossie
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Fast twist but flintlock

Postby mossie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:17 am

I have been interested in shooting heavy weight conical bullets and learning to paper patch but I want it to be a hunting rifle and our regulations for PA. are flintlock ignition. Most of the threads are about percussion rifles and am wondering if I could get suitable accuracy with the flint ignition or would the vent liner causes issues affecting the accuracy? I am thinking a .45 would be better than a .50 caliber as well; is that a fair assumption? What would be a good barrel length? Would 28" be ok or should I go as long as 32"? And lastly what twist rate?

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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby Fmfdred56 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:59 am

currently all i use are inlines but i think barrel info should interchange. i have 2 45s 1 has a 22 inch 1 in 20 twist and 1 is a 26 inch 1 in 20. iv shot both to 420 yards and they shoot very well. the 1 in 20 may be one of the better twist rates for someone shooting full bore bullets. iv found accurate loads with bullets as light as 170 grains and as heavy 524 grains in my guns

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Idaholewis
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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby Idaholewis » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:57 am

mossie wrote:I have been interested in shooting heavy weight conical bullets and learning to paper patch but I want it to be a hunting rifle and our regulations for PA. are flintlock ignition. Most of the threads are about percussion rifles and am wondering if I could get suitable accuracy with the flint ignition or would the vent liner causes issues affecting the accuracy? I am thinking a .45 would be better than a .50 caliber as well; is that a fair assumption? What would be a good barrel length? Would 28" be ok or should I go as long as 32"? And lastly what twist rate?



As far as Flint ignition, I have never owned a Flint and have no desire to. Therefore I can’t give hands on info on accuracy etc. But i will give my opinion, I don’t see how ANY shooter could ever be ‘super’ accurate with ANY Flintlock, even with SUPER FAST lock time there is stil that ‘slight’ Hangfire with a Flintlock. Flintlocks are a VERY cool ignition system, back in the day they Fed MANY families! I have no doubt with Lots n Lots of practice you could get Decent, maybe even considered good with a Flintlock. It’s not the Flintlock ignition that’s the problem, It’s the Shooter, unless you are a Robot I don’t believe you would ever unlock the full accuracy potential of a Fast twist ‘Bullet’ Barrel with Flint ignition. But suitable accuracy, I believe so

I know Green Mountain made the fast twist LRH (Long Range Hunter) Drop in barrels in both percussion and Flint, I have seen several Flint barrels sell on Ebay, Pecatonica River Long Rifle Supply had several Green Mountain LRH barrels in Flint quite awhile back, I actually contacted them about buying 1 in .50 Cal and having them swap out the Breech plug to percussion for me, So they are out there! If you can’t find a Flint You could buy a brand new GM .45 LRH percussion and have it swapped over to Flint easy enough.

The .45 Cal is hands down my favorite of all, if i could elk hunt with my .45 i would likely have skipped owning a .50 Cal, But here in Idaho we have a .50 Cal Minimum restriction on Elk. 1:30 Twist is what i would get! Green Mountain LRH .45 Cals are absolute bullet shooting ‘Masters’ and 1:30 is the Twist they used in their .45 Barrels, it works, and works VERY WELL! My .45 GM LRH has shot everything from 240 Grain Maxi Balls to 450 Grain Cupped base PP bullets VERY accurately, it is not picky! A 350 to 400 Grain bullet is right up the 1:30s Alley. I am shooting a .444 Diameter 400 Grain cupped Base Paper Patched bullet accurately all the way out to 500 yards with my GM LRH .45 Cal with Peep sights.
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edmehlig
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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby edmehlig » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:00 am

Funny you should ask. As you can see from my signature I like shooting White .45cal ML's. I've been toying with the idea of converting my 50 cal Lyman Deerstalker to a 45cal. and using the conicals I cast for my White's so I can use them in the Late PA ML season. Plus, if I wanted to shoot saboted bullets I could try the 40x200gr Bloodlines or the like. I asked Doc White and he recommended Howard Kelly who now makes his 45cal bbls for him. Howard can be reached at Weberton Rifleworks, 1058 North West St., Hillsboro, OH. 45133. Tel # 937-364-2086. I know Grouse who use to visit this site done this and was extremely pleased with the results and accuracy with his.
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Idaholewis
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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby Idaholewis » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:30 am

In all honesty a Fast Twist Bullet Barreled Flintlock would probably be a lot fun, Definitely be a challenge! If i was gonna try it i would work from a ROCK SOLID bench and i would use a good Sand Bag setup, start at 25-50 yards and work away on a load til i found what the rifle liked best, The most important thing for me would be training MYSELF to ‘Follow Through’ after the shot, Training myself to follow through a Gauranteed slight hangfire would no doubt be the biggest challenge for me personally. Understanding the Lock and keeping it ‘Highly tuned’ for super fast ignition would be a must, Hardening of the Frizzen, the best flints to use, how to Nap them etc. All in which i know NOTHING about LOL! Except for reading and watching Videos. There is a guy on Castboolits that goes by rfd, Great guy!! He and i visited about every morning When i was on CB, Rob is a VERY good guy, and super knowledgeable about Flintlocks, if you needed help tuning your lock, types of flints, how to Nap them, hardening the fizzen, etc. etc. i would advise getting in touch with him!

With the right Paper Patched bullet/Load Combo it would really come down to how good are you at doing your part? You could be confident knowing the barrel is VERY CAPABLE!
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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby GM54-120 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:51 am

45s in 1-20, 1-22 and 1-24 are all excellent choices if you want to shoot both big lead and sabots. When it comes to conicals the 45 would be my first choice every single day as long as its legal. 40cal 1-16 would be my second choice.
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52Bore
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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby 52Bore » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:12 pm

Get a good supply of touch hole liners for your flint if you propose to use a heavy conical - especially a 45 or 50.
We shot original double rifles at Friendship and prior to that - the EEDRC for 10 consecutive years. Some of those years we'd also shoot original ML doubles. Of all the shooters/collectors (probably 50 shooters over those years) I only saw 1 Flint double that shot conicals. He had an additional set of modern barrels made for his Westley Richards - .577 I believe and I recall the flash coming out of the touch hole. With the smaller surface area of a 50 or 45 - I would imagine even more attempting to exit the touch hole..
I'l look for a photo of it, if I have one..

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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby 52Bore » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:35 pm

Found them quicker than I thought, from 2008 at a EEDRC match.
6 08 ML Harry S a.JPG

6 08 ML Harry S b.JPG

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edmehlig
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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby edmehlig » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:19 pm

If I go that rout I’ll primarily will be shooting my 350gr HP conical that I shout with my Whites. So I’m looking for what would be the best twist. I may be tempted to try the 40-200gr Bloodlines as well.
1 - White M98/.451
3 - White M97/.451
1 - Flintlock Lyman Deerstalker / 50Cal

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Idaholewis
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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby Idaholewis » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:05 am

52bore, Cool pics!! Appears that critter has some SERIOUS Wallop! I never thought about it til you mention it, But i can see where the Touch hole liners would get eaten up quickly with heavy Conicals, like nipples on percussion guns but worse? I have no experience with flintlocks. I would imagine you can get Ampco touch hole liners? If so that is DEFINITELY what i would get, I have found nothing better, My experience with the Treso/Ampco nipples have been all positive, they far and away outlast Stainless nipples. I have at least 100 shots a piece on 2 Treso/Ampcos with 400 Plus Grain Conicals and 70-95 Grains of Swiss 2 and 3F, They are both stil going strong! Before the Ampcos I was averaging about 20-25 shots on Stainless RMC nipples and they were toast

Not sure if they make Platinum lined Touch hole liners? I tried 2 of the Platinum lined nipples, in My experience they weren’t worth the 60 bucks a piece, Some guy’s swear by them. I heard from a very good source about returns of the Platinum lined nipples with the Platinum liner blown out. I will stick with the Treso/Ampcos for under 5 bucks a piece
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52Bore
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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby 52Bore » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:05 pm

I dont' think the recoil is as bad as the photo. He was a little back in his stance to begin with and I think the recoil shot - he is actually dropping the butt (muzzle up) which might make it appear a lot of recoil..
Over the years I've have a few request if I would/could PT a touch hole- I've declined.
I've had some Joe Hepsworth nipples sent to me for PT, he tried to thread the nipple and upset the PT into the threads - kinda like they did originally but they used a lot larger diameter piece and their threads were much deeper - larger tpi.

45cal
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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby 45cal » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Must remember Mingo's Flinter in the Inline Match 52 Bore.

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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby 52Bore » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:07 pm

45cal wrote:Must remember Mingo's Flinter in the Inline Match 52 Bore.

Ha, that's right, I'll have to ask him this year how those touch holes are doing..

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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby themoose » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:02 pm

I took a doe Fri evening before the storm front hit PA. I used my 50 Cal RMC flintlock (AccuSporter) with1:28 twist and L&R lock. I use 460 gr paperpatched bullets from a Mountain Mold great plains style sized to .500 over 80grs Swiss FFF and hard felt wad. RMC made here in PA.

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Idaholewis
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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby Idaholewis » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:40 pm

themoose wrote:I took a doe Fri evening before the storm front hit PA. I used my 50 Cal RMC flintlock (AccuSporter) with1:28 twist and L&R lock. I use 460 gr paperpatched bullets from a Mountain Mold great plains style sized to .500 over 80grs Swiss FFF and hard felt wad. RMC made here in PA.


Congrats on the doe!! That load sounds familiar, i use very similar in my 1:28 50 Cal, Same bullet weight and Swiss powder, Except i am using 95 Grains by Weight of 2F, With Your 80 of 3F i bet we are fairly close in fps. What kind of accuracy are you getting with your setup, and yardage?
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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby themoose » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:42 pm

Can't tell you how well load shoots because I haven't mastered flintlock yet,. But off rest with iron sights it will print about 1 1/2 " @ 50 yds... I can keep in paper plates @ 100 yds...not tried farther.... My eyes, age and iron sights limit accuracy more the gun & load . Best 3 shot group @ 50 yds had cloverleaf with all touching, but found out bullets sized @ .495 we're too loose to use for hunting in real cold weather. Went back to sizing # .500

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Idaholewis
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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby Idaholewis » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:43 pm

themoose wrote:Can't tell you how well load shoots because I haven't mastered flintlock yet,. But off rest with iron sights it will print about 1 1/2 " @ 50 yds... I can keep in paper plates @ 100 yds...not tried farther.... My eyes, age and iron sights limit accuracy more the gun & load . Best 3 shot group @ 50 yds had cloverleaf with all touching, but found out bullets sized @ .495 we're too loose to use for hunting in real cold weather. Went back to sizing # .500


A flintlock would definitely be a BIG challenge! I size to .500 as well for targets, i also have a .499 but prefer the .500, For hunting i dont size at all, just Wrap my 2 wraps and load. Back when i was shooting the Lee S&W 500 bullet i tried sizing them down to .493, Wrapping and Loading, it worked fine and Accuracy was great. But Sizing that bullet that far down is a LARGE step, rolling them across a lube pad was a must. Several ways to a skin a Cat, as long as you get the hide off that’s all that matters!
"Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown

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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby 52Bore » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:53 pm

themoose wrote:Can't tell you how well load shoots because I haven't mastered flintlock yet,. But off rest with iron sights it will print about 1 1/2 " @ 50 yds... I can keep in paper plates @ 100 yds...not tried farther.... My eyes, age and iron sights limit accuracy more the gun & load . Best 3 shot group @ 50 yds had cloverleaf with all touching, but found out bullets sized @ .495 we're too loose to use for hunting in real cold weather. Went back to sizing # .500

Good report and good to know.
How's the touch hole holding up?

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Re: Fast twist but flintlock

Postby themoose » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:02 am

Mine is the stainless Domed shaped type. Can't tell you if there is wear by eyeballin it. I think I have a new spare, but doubt I have pin guages that go that big. I had issue with location of touch hole and the manufacturer replaced the barrel about 3 weeks ago may have sent new f h liner, not sure.


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