Fast Twist Barrel

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Just a FYI to all. GM still has some 50 cal. LRH in the white, no breech plug or accessories installed for $115. They were on sale for $93 this weekend.
 
Idaholewis said:
GM54-120 said:
Im pretty certain a 45cal 1-30 will shoot upto a 405gr without any problems....At least at typical shooting distances. IIRC there are quite a few 45/70 molds in this weight range. That is probably calculated as ww lead so figure around 415gr maybe in soft lead.

Things get a bit iffy as you approach 1in long figuring only 1300fps but .9" is no problem according to the calculators. One of the guys here used to shoot a 400gr "ish and it shot really well in his 1-30 but that was all 100 yards or less.


GM54-120, I fully agree with the 400ish Grain Weight in the 30 twist, But not the length. The .444-400 BACO bullet above is 1.090 in length and does absolutely awesome out of my 1:30 twist from 50 to 500 yards, I can’t comment beyond 500 yards as I’ve not been beyond that with a Muzzleloader yet. I take the bullet length calculation stuff with a fine grain of salt, VERY fine in these old Muzzleloaders traveling 1200-1500 FPS (The latter on a good day with a tail wind) I was told way back on another forum that i needed some gigantic weight/length bullet for my 1:28 twist 50 Cal LRH, My Lyman Plains bullet is the shortest bullet i own for .50 and .54 Cal at .85 and it shoots right with, and better in many cases than my other bullets, traveling nearly 1500 FPS From my .50 Cal. I have not shot them past 200 yards, maybe accuracy goes south beyond that? I bought some BACO .492-550 Grain bullets which were long and supposed to be well suited for my 28 twist (can’t remember the length now? I melted them down) My 1:28 Twist .50 LRH Shot them worse than any bullet I've tried in it to date.

I strongly believe in bullet length/twist ratio with Center fire type velocities of 2700 FPS and well above. But I’m not buying it in these old Sidelock Muzzleloaders that are in the 1200-1400 FPS range, and under 300 yards. I do believe it comes in to play at really long range of 500 plus yards, But truth is I don’t have experience there YET so I can’t intelligently comment, I am placing my Soule sight order this morning, So I’m about to learn. I plan to try various weight/length bullets out to 800 yards

The best calculator in my hands on experience is to shoot different bullets from your rifle and see what works best in it

A certain number of rpms is required to stabilize a bullet. You can shoot them faster or twist them faster in the barrel. Once it leaves the barrel, fps and rpms start to go down. Its quite possible a bullet that clover leafs at 50yards is all over the target at 150yards. Conicals can only handle "X" amount of velocity in the barrel before leading becomes a problem. You can only twist them so fast until they start "stripping" in the lands.

Shoot them too fast and spin them too fast...you will have a ton of barrel scrubbing in store for you.

Like anything else its a balancing act. How fast do you want to shoot them and how heavy do you want to go? Ed's little 350gr "Gould" bullet is right at home in a 1-30 and a joy to shoot as well but its not going to win any long range awards. Its also not going to stand upto really high impact speeds very well either.

Jackalope
Take a look at Accurate Molds. They got tons of .45Xs in the 350gr-405gr range with diagrams and size specs. Several made just for MLs too. If you want to try a readily available 385gr .451, look at NoExcuses Bullets. They have some that are around $28/50 but its $11 shipping too.

http://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/pr ... 85-grains/

Dan at Bullshop has even better pricing and selection. IIRC his in pure lead were around $45/100, lubed and sized.
https://bullshop.weebly.com/-bullet-prices.html
 
waarp8nt said:
Just a FYI to all. GM still has some 50 cal. LRH in the white, no breech plug or accessories installed for $115. They were on sale for $93 this weekend.


are they at least threaded for breechplugs? or are they just barrel blanks?
 
I really want to find one bullet for pronghorn to elk and pour my own. I can’t really afford to buy a bunch of molds. I want to paper patch as well. I see the RCBS 11 mm works pretty well.
 
bubba.50 said:
waarp8nt said:
Just a FYI to all. GM still has some 50 cal. LRH in the white, no breech plug or accessories installed for $115. They were on sale for $93 this weekend.


are they at least threaded for breechplugs? or are they just barrel blanks?

Just opened mine and it's threaded.
 
Jackalope said:
I really want to find one bullet for pronghorn to elk and pour my own. I can’t really afford to buy a bunch of molds. I want to paper patch as well. I see the RCBS 11 mm works pretty well.

The RCBS 11MM is a great shooting bullet, This particular bullet could be made PERFECT for Paper Patching quite easily as I’ve said all along. They drop from the mold at .446ish, i would get a Lee .443 Sizing die, lube and run the RCBS 11MM bullets through the .443 Sizing die, wipe them good and clean, then you could simply wrap your paper and load them. Going this route you will NOT have any papers stick to the bullet, they will ‘shuck away at the muzzle’ as a true Paper Patched bullet should. I personally feel this to be a far superior way to go with this bullet instead of wrapping the already slightly oversize bullet and then forcing them through a sizer with the paper on, I am absolutely confident this is where the stuck paper issues come from. My opinion, and yer welcome to it.

If you decide to go with the RCBS 11MM bullet, i have a mold here like brand new, i will make you a good deal on it. I simply don’t need it.
 
GM54-120 said:
A certain number of rpms is required to stabilize a bullet. You can shoot them faster or twist them faster in the barrel. Once it leaves the barrel, fps and rpms start to go down. Its quite possible a bullet that clover leafs at 50yards is all over the target at 150yards. Conicals can only handle "X" amount of velocity in the barrel before leading becomes a problem. You can only twist them so fast until they start "stripping" in the lands.

Shoot them too fast and spin them too fast...you will have a ton of barrel scrubbing in store for you.

Like anything else its a balancing act. How fast do you want to shoot them and how heavy do you want to go? Ed's little 350gr "Gould" bullet is right at home in a 1-30 and a joy to shoot as well but its not going to win any long range awards. Its also not going to stand upto really high impact speeds very well either.


GM54-120, Good post! A balancing act is an awesome way of describing it. I know about the fast twist/leading :D i had a bit of a run in with it on My last outing with the new 1:18 twist .451 barrel, my very last shot, barrel was dirty (even tho i swab good between shots) the second from the last shot I noticed that bullet went down TIGHT, quite a bit tighter than normal, So preparing for my last shot i really swabbed her out good, That bullet stil went down tighter than i was comfortable with, i got to the last 1-2” from seating on the OP wad and i felt the bullet push thru the paper jacket :wall: i went ahead and took the shot anyway. When i got home and started cleaning my first patch came up with a small amount of shiny lead attached. Sending a pure lead unlubed projectile with a bearing surface of nearly 1” down A 32” 1:18 twist bore is not a purty thing! lol! I have since corrected this from happening.

I fully agree on a bullet shooting clover leaf groups at 50 yards and not so great at 150 yards, I have been frustrated with that more than once! I do a lot of shooting at 50-60 yards in load development, I have quick easy access to those ranges here close to home, and the simple fact is 50 yards is easier than 100 with open sights, good accuracy at 50 yards gives me a good starting point with a load. But truth is i should do away with 50 yard stuff and stick with 100
 
That 389gr you made looks really good to me especially if you want to shoot it in a 1-30 at 1300-1400fps. My old 1-30 Elite and 1-28 Accura would shoot a 360gr insanely well with slightly hotter than normal loads.
 
GM54-120 said:
That 389gr you made looks really good to me especially if you want to shoot it in a 1-30 at 1300-1400fps. My old 1-30 Elite and 1-28 Accura would shoot a 360gr insanely well with slightly hotter than normal loads.

I am hoping to try these tomorrow morning in the 1:30 twist GM LRH, my intentions for having that mold made was the 1:30 Twist. I have some pre weighed 80 Grain charges of Swiss 2F ready to go, that should be right in that FPS range? This rifle has always shot 70 Weight Grains of Swiss 3F really well, i will probably try that as well. These bullets in dead Soft lead was giving up about halfway down the bore and getting to loose for my liking, the ones i have ready to go now are hardened up a bit, hopefully they hold good now.
 

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