OP Wads (Hard Card vs Wool Felt)

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Idaholewis

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I might have shown this before? In case I haven’t, here is the difference i have found in Hard Card (Vege Fibre) vs Wool felt. In my testing i have found Wool felt to be FAR superior to Hard Card type OP Wads when used with Grease Groove bullets

This is only 50 Yards, but as you can see there is a HUGE difference in accuracy. If i could choose only 1 OP Wad material it would definitely be Wool felt. With my Paper Patched bullets I don’t see this kind of difference, Only with GG (Greased) bullets. My theory is the Hard card is sticking to the lubed bullet base after exiting from melted lube? Not sure how far they ride, i cant remember finding them? If my hunch is correct this would cause the bullet to steer wrong/differently each time

.060 Hard Card (Vege Fibre)


And 1/8” Wool Felt, Oxyoke brand (store bought)
 
With Wool felt i prefer larger oversized wads, i have been doing this since i started, it just makes better sense to me. For .45 Cal i use a .50 Cal Wool felt Wad, for .50 Cal i use a .54 Cal Wool felt Wad, and for .54 Cal i use a .58 Cal Wool felt Wad.

With these oversized Wads i take care in starting them straight and not ‘leaned’ sideways. I have found with Wool if you try and seat the Wad Without it being straight, they don’t always straighten out when pushing them down to the powder, you can feel this when you get to the powder and push ‘Spongy’ feel. It’s worth the second it takes to start them straight
 
Re: RE: OP Wads (Hard Card vs Wool Felt)

Idaholewis said:
I might have shown this before? In case I haven’t, here is the difference i have found in Hard Card (Vege Fibre) vs Wool felt. In my testing i have found Wool felt to be FAR superior to Hard Card type OP Wads when used with Grease Groove bullets

This is only 50 Yards, but as you can see there is a HUGE difference in accuracy. If i could choose only 1 OP Wad material it would definitely be Wool felt. With my Paper Patched bullets I don’t see this kind of difference, Only with GG (Greased) bullets. My theory is the Hard card is sticking to the lubed bullet base after exiting from melted lube? Not sure how far they ride, i cant remember finding them? If my hunch is correct this would cause the bullet to steer wrong/differently each time

.060 Hard Card (Vege Fibre)


And 1/8” Wool Felt, Oxyoke brand (store bought)
Interesting I'll give it a try thanks for the tip. Just out of curiosity were both targets shot on a clean cold barrel?

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
 
Re: RE: OP Wads (Hard Card vs Wool Felt)

muzzlestuffer said:
Interesting I'll give it a try thanks for the tip. Just out of curiosity were both targets shot on a clean cold barrel?

I am pretty sure These were shot 2 different days? I really need to start putting dates on targets.

When i started using the Hard Card wads i had such good luck with them that i felt nothing would compete with them? Definitely NOT the case! The above targets were shot with a brand new bullet from a Custom mold i had Accurate molds make, My first outing/Group i shot was with the Hard Card wads and as you can see i was bummed out! I immediately thought my rifle wasn’t gonna shoot the new bullet well? This was from my 1:30 Twist Green Mountain LRH barrel, This particular barrel has been my ‘Go To’ for pin point accuracy.

Moral of the story, I almost threw this bullet aside since my tried and trued, trusty rifle didn’t shoot it worth a darn. DON’T give up, or rule out a new bullet til you have tried everything. OP Wads can make a HUGE difference! Again I feel Wool felt is the better all around choice, Though i do really like my Hard Cards with my Paper Patched bullets
 
Here is another good example of an OP Wad failure. Back when i first started using the Vege Fibre OP Wads i bought a 9/16 hollow punch to make them for my .54s, My dad and i finally got chance to shoot together and i took along my new Vege Fibre wads. My Dads rifle is a .54 Cal TC Renegade with a Stock 1:48 Twist Hawken barrel with a QLA Muzzle (I gave him the Barrel) Back when i gave my Dad this barrel we had shot it using Wool felt OP wads, at 75 Yards Dad was staying in about 2 inches, He shot the setup very well!

We get setup to shoot this second time, Using the new .060 Vege Fibre OP Wads. My dad has always been a good open sight shooter, if bullets are landing all over I immediately go to the gun/load. We are set up at 50 yards, Dad gets his rifle loaded (new Vege Fibre OP Wad) Settles in and takes the shot, I CLEARLY remember seeing the weeds/grass ‘part’ in front of my target? I also remember my target stand moved slightly??? I asked dad how the shot felt to him? He said good, We walked up and checked, Sure enough that bullet had hit the Earth about 3 foot low, Cut a trench through the grass, ricocheted off the Ground and went through my Target Frame Sideways!! We loaded his rifle back up, the next shot we have no idea where it went? Dad went back to Wool Felt and his group was just like the first outing. The Hard Card Wads in that stock QLA Muzzle barrel were an ABSOLUTE DISASTER. Dad ended up going back to his Stock Renegade Barrel without the QLA Muzzle. The Fancy QLA Muzzle Hawken barrel is sitting in my floor in front of me as i type this, i need to get it in the Mail to Hoyt for a Rebore to .58 to lose the QLA
 
Lewis,

I can see that your bullet is definitely working well for you. I looked up your mold specs on Accurate website and I had a few questions about it and others may also be curious..

Dimensions list diameter as .454 what is your as cast diameter using your 40:1 alloy?

Is it a bevel base design or flat? Looks to be bevel and I assume that is for ease of getting it started(but thinking if you size it down what is the diameter of the base?)

What is the advantage of a taperd design in muzzleloading bullet vs all bands being the same diameter?

thanks for looking... always glad to get input from you...

Kindest regards,

TheMoose
 
themoose said:
Lewis,

I can see that your bullet is definitely working well for you. I looked up your mold specs on Accurate website and I had a few questions about it and others may also be curious..

Dimensions list diameter as .454 what is your as cast diameter using your 40:1 alloy?

Is it a bevel base design or flat? Looks to be bevel and I assume that is for ease of getting it started(but thinking if you size it down what is the diameter of the base?)

What is the advantage of a taperd design in muzzleloading bullet vs all bands being the same diameter?

thanks for looking... always glad to get input from you...

Kindest regards,

TheMoose



It is a bevel base, along with bottom of the bands of the 2nd and 3rd on the original Bullshop bullet. How i came up with those numbers is from an original Bullshop bullet for .50 Cal, a friend and forum member here left me 4 of them to try, they shot DYNAMITE good from my 1:28 Stainless .50 Cal, i shot a perfect cloverleaf group and saved the 4th bullet to send to Accurate molds for him to duplicate it as closely as possible (I contacted Dan of Bullshop first and asked his permission to copy his bullet) I ended up having him make the Same mold style and corresponding numbers to Caliber for .45, .50, and .54 Cal.

The original Bullshop bullet bottom 2 bands were .504, the 3rd band was .506, and the top band was .507-.508
These bullets were designed to load tight and stay put, Which they do VERY well!!

These bullets are definitely not for everyone, A short starter is your friend here! I am now taking the fight out of the .45s by sending them through a .451.75 Sizer (Yep i opened my sizer a tiny bit more) With my 40:1 they load good n tight, but way easier than Full size. Before sized, these bullets shoot true 1” groups at 100 yards in my 1:30 GM LRH ‘Hotrod Hawken’ I have not shot these bullets sized yet, if they don’t shoot as well i will stay fullbore with them
 
The Fancy QLA Muzzle Hawken barrel is sitting in my floor in front of me as i type this, i need to get it in the Mail to Hoyt for a Rebore to .58 to lose the QLA

OH NO- SAY IT ISN'T SOO. Is the bore in this hawken barrel bad? or is it just the QLA?
 
triggerhappy243 said:
The Fancy QLA Muzzle Hawken barrel is sitting in my floor in front of me as i type this, i need to get it in the Mail to Hoyt for a Rebore to .58 to lose the QLA

OH NO- SAY IT ISN'T SOO. Is the bore in this hawken barrel bad? or is it just the QLA?


It’s as close to brand new as a guy will likely find, it’s a PERFECT candidate for a Hoyt Rebore. Instead of getting an ole nasty sewer pipe of a barrel he will get 1 he can scratch his head and wonder why? :D Actually I’m sure it won’t be anything new to him, The QLA Muzzle is an absolute Joke

The rare occasions we get down in the big city stuff, I love to check pawn shops for Muzzleloaders, Double eagle pawn has a row of 20-30, a little bit of everything. The VERY first thing i do is look at the Muzzle, if it has a QLA I don’t even bother looking at the price tag, whatever it reads it’s to much
 
why not just wack off an inch and cut a new dovetail for the front sight? Shame to cut into a perfectly good barrel.
 
triggerhappy243 said:
why not just wack off an inch and cut a new dovetail for the front sight? Shame to cut into a perfectly good barrel.


I thought about that in the beginning and it’s stil not out of the Question, i would bet it would be every bit as expensive or possibly more to have that done, The barrel would have to be cut off to the back edge of the front sight Dove, A new Dovetail Cut in the Barrel, The under rib would need Cut back and a new hole drilled and tapped in the underside of the barrel for the under rib. This is WAY out of my league with my tools, This would be a piece of cake if it was a simple ‘bob’ and recrown like an inline with a scope that prefers a slick barrel. There is a LOT more involved with a Sidelock barrel

Last i heard Robert Hoyt Charges 140 bucks to Rebore and twist to your preference, I highly doubt you could have the above done for less than that? And since i dont own a .58 Cal anymore I think it would be fun to have a Round Ball Twist .58 Cal Hawken barrel. But in all honesty this is on a FAAAAAR back burner, i also thought about putting it on Ebay and asking some outlandish price for it since it’s like brand new.
 
i am cringing at the thought of reaming a perfectly good barrel that says 54 cal. and making it a 58. If it were mine, I would look at a rusted barrel(like the one I have) and reline it. Which I will do at some point. I guess i am a bit anal retentive, my 54 cal bbl is stamped 54 cal.
 
triggerhappy243 said:
I guess i am a bit anal retentive, my 54 cal bbl is stamped 54 cal.

I will take a picture and post it after i make a long, odd shaped 8 out of the 4 with my Dremel! :lol: :poke:
 

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