BH 209 questions

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silentstalker

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So I am shooting a CVA Kodiak magnum and my brother is shooting a T/C Omega. We are both shooting BH 209. He is shooting the 290 gr. Barnes with a yellow sabot and has shot the 300 gr. SST with the low drag sabot. I have shot the 300 gr. Scorpion PT, 300 gr. Barnes mz, 338 gr. Platinum PB, 300 gr. SST with low drag sabot, and now the 260 gr. Nosler Partition. We both shoot Win 209 primers.

We are both shooting a clean gun firing 1 primer before shooting. We are not swabbing or cleaning in any way during our sessions. The results have been terrible.

We are weighing out charges and have shot for groups using charges of 90-120 gr. We are getting 3-4" groups with fliers with even bigger spans. As it stands currently I have no confidence in this gun.

My questions are:

Are you guys cleaning or swabbing between shots with BH 209?

Do you have any advice?
 
low drag sabots and yellow barnes sabots with those bullets would probably load to loss. i believe you need a tighter fitting bullet sabot combo.

barnes 290 tez and supplied blue sabot should fit well. you need a snug sabot bullet
 
How do you know when you have a good fit? When is it too tight?

I have harvester crush rib, MMP hp-12, and MMP-24. Depending on the bullet, some are way too tight and some are loose.
 
I personally recommend cleaning between shoots with hoppes9 and 91% alcohol mixed50/50 swab damp patch and 2 dry patches.
Sabot fit should be snug 2 hand loading.
Make sure let barrel cool between shots.
 
Thank you for your help. When you clean are you just pushing patches from the muzzle or are you pulling the breech plug each time?
 
Just clean from muzzle. I lightly damp patch then 2 dry patches. Can set butt of gun on bathroom scale and then load to get sabot loading pressure. 30-40 lbs sabot loading resistance usually pretty close.

I really like the Barnes290 tez always use magnum 209 primer with blackhorn
Federal209a
Cci 209m
 
Thanks, we will test both guns for proper fit and try cleaning between each shot. Hopefully that will bring the accuracy back.
 
silentstalker said:
We are weighing out charges and have shot for groups using charges of 90-120 gr.

You say you are weighing the powder, then list 90-120gr.....I am guessing the 90-120 is by volume and you forgot to label it correct? Just making sure you aren't shooting a 120gr weighed charge (that would be 172gr by volume)
 
Great catch! I am actually shooting 77 gr. By weight. 110 by volume. I am considering switching back to 90 gr. By volume to see if that changes anything too.
 
An update. Went out yesterday and my inconsistencies continue. 4-5" groups at 100 yards. I swabbed after each shot. I have not tried the magnum 209 primers yet.

Will they really make that much difference? Could they be the difference?

Also, here are two of my sabots I picked up. Is the bent back petal a sign of anything?

a97c92e4c6eed278d1f5b18003339254.jpg
 
I shoot an Omega with BH209 and never swab between shots. It's simply not needed and I seriously doubt that is the cause of your inaccuracy.

Are both the Kodiak and Omega getting similar results?
 
Yes to both getting similar accuracy issues.

My sabots are loading in the 20-40 lbs. range as it goes down the barrel. When I was swabbing it was much easier to load as it seemed to be lubricated. I am thinking I need to go to the much harder to load MMP -12.

Another guy pointed out that these sabots have little to no rifling marks possibly indicating poor barrel fit. Do you guys concur?
 
I don't really see any land marks either now that you mention it. :huh?: Another curious thing I see, or think I see as it is hard to tell from that picture, is that the top sabot in the picture seems to show that the lower pedal in that picture looks like it might be "twisted" at the base of the pedal. I am talking about the pedal that is one pedal clockwise from the pedal that sticks out to the right.

I would also expect that with 90+ grains of BH that those pedals would be flared out much more, like straight out. I too am thinking that those sabots are too loose for the bullet and bore and might just be slipping or spinning on the lands.

How hard is it to load the MMP-HPH12 in that rifle? Are you using a short starter or are these loose enough to just use the rod to start and seat?
I like them tight so that I have to put some force to it but not quite enough to bend a ramrod. I don't like them loose enough so that I can easily load them with just a gentle push, if that makes any since. I short start mine with a TC T-Handle short starter and then use the ramrod.

I have one rifle that does best when swabbed too but I only use one Dry patch for that, nothing wet. That rifle is an odd one. :roll:
 
The mmp-hph 12 are really tight. The ones you see here are started with a T handle short starter but go down the barrel pretty easily. They are crush rib sabots by harvester. Im going to go out tomorrow with the hph 12 if I can and try them again. Last time I tried them they were extremely difficult to load and that is why I started trying the harvester sabots. I will load a bullet with two or three sabots to get the best feel leaning towards really tight.

I have some MMP HPH -12, -24, and these crush rib as well as some low drag sabots but I suspect they are too loose as well.
 
So I finally put the scope and rings on a centerfire rifle. Looks like my scope is bad. Thanks for all the input, I learned a lot working through this problem.
 
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