swabbing between shots

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redear

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the other day I bought a new cva wolf and when firing the first shots I was getting a crud ring that made it very difficult to seat the next bullet as far as the previous one, this was causing accuracy to be affected. So I stumbled on this forum and joined right away in order to read up on the members experiences with this model gun. swabbing between shots was suggested so I bought some wet patches and some dry ones, the resulting accuracy was really good, I am getting bullets practically touching at 75 yds. or so. You all saved me a lot of frustration with that, thanks! I now have confidence in this setup for hunting deer. the load is 2 pellets of t7 and a 295 gr, power belt hollow point with no polymer tip, Winchester 209 primer. I never had seen power belts shoot this good before but I guess the cva barrel is perfect for them.
 
Congrats on the new rifle :D It should be a good shooter for you. Good catch on swabbing between shots, it makes a difference.

Have you used power belts before on deer? I had a bad experience with them a while back and have since moved on to different bullets.

Have a good and safe hunt this year :yeah:
 
buckdoehunter, no I have not used the power belts before and only bought them because I ran into a guy at the store who had the same gun and he had good luck with their accuracy. I didn't realize when I bought them that so many people had issues with them. we only have one week of blackpowder season left and now I am zeroed in with them, will change up for sure when I have time to experiment. any other suggestions for a bullet for the cva wolf to be used on whitetails? the powerbelts do shoot very well in the wolf, at 75 yds. anyway.
 
Late to the thread. I just sold my Optima, but when I had it I WAS using the same exact setup u are using, until I got some very good advice from a very knowledgeable black powder guy on another forum I use and switched to Barnes T-EZ 250 grain and my groups shrunk right down. Never used them on deer, but have heard a million horror stories about Power Belts terminal performance on deer. My power belts wouldn't group worth a crap. However, I wasn't swabbing between shots when grouping those either.


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thank you all so much for the advise on bullets and sabots! yesterday was the last day of muzzleloader season and I killed two small bucks with the wolf yesterday evening I took the 2nd. one. I am a computer challenged person and never could get the hang of posting pics etc. the first buck took the bullet at 130 yds. in the midsection as I pulled the shot and he went 30 yds. the second one was a perfect neck shot at 70 yds, with complete penetration and that deer was drt. I will switch to the bullet and sabot ya'll suggested for next year though and possibly get a blackhorn plug and go with that powder too. I am exstatic over the ease of cleaning this new style gun also. today was the start of our shotgun season and now I must sight in the cva 20 ga. slug gun I bought the same time as the wolf. apparently this cva hunter 20 ga. slug gun is new and I can't find anything about peoples experiences with it yet. they won't let us use the muzzleloader during regular season, it is either buckshot or slug gun.
 
what kind of powder and charge are ya'll using with this barnes bullet if ya don't mind me asking? thanks again for the tips. kip
 
I have used 60gr of BlackHorn 209 powder for the kids, all the way up to 110gr with the TEZ. 110gr is usually the load for my rifles when used by adults because of the longer shots we can take in my area. 80gr wood be a good starting point. Let the barrel cool while working up a load with sabots, say 10mins between shots. No swabbing needed with BH209 but some do swab with good results, just have to try it and see how it works for you. Do get the BH209 breech plug,

Congrats on the deer!
 
I think the issue of swabbing between shots depends on what powder, gun setup, and bore fit of projectile. I just got back from a deer hunt, 4-shots over a 3 day period. I don't do anything between shots besides loading up again. If one started with a tight bore fit, to tight, you may have to swab.

Shooting B209 powder and a nice fit with a 'crush rib' sabot, the later loadings are still pleasant. When there is shooting to be done, why spend time swabbing IF you don't have to? If a hunting situation I would think it's very beneficial to reduce the steps required to get back in the action.
 
I find swabbing between shots to be very necessary when bench shooting for the best possible accuracy, i use a mixture of 50/50 Blue Windex and 91% Alcohol, i take a brand new bottle of windex and pour about half of it into another container, then fill the Windex bottle back up with 91% rubbing Alcohol, this gives me my mixture i like and a convenient spray bottle to take along with me to the Range, i saturate 1 patch, ring it out and swab, paying close attention to the 'crud ring' down by the breach, several short strokes back n forth in this area until i can no longer feel the crud ring, then i use 2 dry patches back n forth to dry the bore good, load back up and shoot, repeat
 
Re: RE: swabbing between shots

redear said:
the other day I bought a new cva wolf and when firing the first shots I was getting a crud ring that made it very difficult to seat the next bullet as far as the previous one, this was causing accuracy to be affected. So I stumbled on this forum and joined right away in order to read up on the members experiences with this model gun. swabbing between shots was suggested so I bought some wet patches and some dry ones, the resulting accuracy was really good, I am getting bullets practically touching at 75 yds. or so. You all saved me a lot of frustration with that, thanks! I now have confidence in this setup for hunting deer. the load is 2 pellets of t7 and a 295 gr, power belt hollow point with no polymer tip, Winchester 209 primer. I never had seen power belts shoot this good before but I guess the cva barrel is perfect for them.
I shoot a cva accura v2 lr with federal bor lok bullets and 90 grains loose bh 209 no crud ring easy loading and very accurate ! Imo get rid of the pellets and loose powder much better load.

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"I find swabbing between shots to be very necessary when bench shooting for the best possible accuracy, i use a mixture of 50/50 Blue Windex and 91% Alcohol, i take a brand new bottle of windex and pour about half of it into another container, then fill the Windex bottle back up with 91% rubbing Alcohol, this gives me my mixture i like and a convenient spray bottle to take along with me to the Range, i saturate 1 patch, ring it out and swab, paying close attention to the 'crud ring' down by the breach, several short strokes back n forth in this area until i can no longer feel the crud ring, then i use 2 dry patches back n forth to dry the bore good, load back up and shoot, repeat"

Idaholewis, what do you do while hunting? I actually don't mind an involved process while hunting, if it will get me the accuracy I'm looking for. I've wondered about patches pre-soaked with an alcohol mix, and how I might carry that while hunting. Seems like it would tend to dry up unless it was in an air tight container. In the past, I've put patches in an plastic snuff cans, as the fit almost perfectly, but I'm not sure they would fit tight enough to keep alcohol from evaporating. Maybe use a Ziploc?
 
Re: RE: Re: swabbing between shots

FredB said:
"I find swabbing between shots to be very necessary when bench shooting for the best possible accuracy, i use a mixture of 50/50 Blue Windex and 91% Alcohol, i take a brand new bottle of windex and pour about half of it into another container, then fill the Windex bottle back up with 91% rubbing Alcohol, this gives me my mixture i like and a convenient spray bottle to take along with me to the Range, i saturate 1 patch, ring it out and swab, paying close attention to the 'crud ring' down by the breach, several short strokes back n forth in this area until i can no longer feel the crud ring, then i use 2 dry patches back n forth to dry the bore good, load back up and shoot, repeat"

Idaholewis, what do you do while hunting? I actually don't mind an involved process while hunting, if it will get me the accuracy I'm looking for. I've wondered about patches pre-soaked with an alcohol mix, and how I might carry that while hunting. Seems like it would tend to dry up unless it was in an air tight container. In the past, I've put patches in an plastic snuff cans, as the fit almost perfectly, but I'm not sure they would fit tight enough to keep alcohol from evaporating. Maybe use a Ziploc?
Are you referring to round ball ?

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Muzzlestuffer, no, not round ball. Shooting lead conicals. Swabbing with full sized cleaning patches.
 
Re: RE: Re: swabbing between shots

FredB said:
Muzzlestuffer, no, not round ball. Shooting lead conicals. Swabbing with full sized cleaning patches.
As far as I'm concerned I avoid swabbing while hunting unless you have lots of time that why I like the slip fit type of bullet no swabbing and super quick reloading and No loss of accuracy

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I swab every time. Range or field. Rubbing alcohol does a good job and evaporates quickly.
Things like powder and humidity must be accounted for. Dry conditions will set residues like black or T7 up like concrete. You may be able to ram, but that sabot is gonna get beat up by the fouling on the way out.
Before deciding not to swab when hunting, shoot and reload and let the rifle sit for a decent amount of time. Fire the shot and see what it does to your point of impact. Sometimes, it isn't pretty. Ymmv
 
If your muzzleloader is compatible with Blackhorn 209 and you are not using it, you are doing things the hard way. I shoot BH209 and do not ever clean my barrel bores. My barrels are stainless with nitride and therefore are not harmed by not cleaning. This leaves a coating of BH209 residue which is consistent shot after shot. 3 shots, or 100 shots will group and load consistently. I even leave these barrels dirty after hunting season, take them out prior to the following season and just start shooting. 1" groups @ 100yds every shot.
Annually I clean and apply anti-sieze to the breech plug threads and this that is the extent of my cleaning. While this is also an ongoing experiment for my production muzzleloaders, its just way to easy and provides incredible results. Last year I sent a bore scope down in for inspection after cleaning up the area in front of the breech plug and not surprisingly, it still looks like new.
 
QUOTE="mwwoodman, post: 268808, member: 19529"]If your muzzleloader is compatible with Blackhorn 209 and you are not using it, you are doing things the hard way. I shoot BH209 and do not ever clean my barrel bores. My barrels are stainless with nitride and therefore are not harmed by not cleaning. This leaves a coating of BH209 residue which is consistent shot after shot. 3 shots, or 100 shots will group and load consistently. I even leave these barrels dirty after hunting season, take them out prior to the following season and just start shooting. 1" groups @ 100yds every shot.
Annually I clean and apply anti-sieze to the breech plug threads and this that is the extent of my cleaning. While this is also an ongoing experiment for my production muzzleloaders, its just way to easy and provides incredible results. Last year I sent a bore scope down in for inspection after cleaning up the area in front of the breech plug and not surprisingly, it still looks like new.[/QUOTE]

You got that right! I will never use BP or pyrodex again. And those 777 pellets? They might do ok for sling shot ammo. BH209 is a dream come true!
 
I swab between every shot as we all know that first shot out of a clean barrel is a fowling shot All the powders we use are corrosive some more than others I don't like letting my barrel dirty just for this reason so I sight in on a clean barrel and the first shot is dead on If I shoot that day I clean my rifle as soon as I get home We all know that first shot is the killing shot no animal is going to hang around till you reload but there is always that exception
 
When shooting BP or subs I clean every shot for sighting in to get a fine POI but when getting ready for hunting I fire 5 shot groups. I'm not gonna clean the gun in my tree and I like to know where the next 4 shots are gonna go if I need more shots than one in the field.
 
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