First post, first ML

Just bought a CVA Optima. Not the newest model but the one before it, the black/SS Thumbhole stock Konus scope pkg. Got Pyrodex pellets and 245 gr Power Belt Copper hollowpoints. Plan on shooting100 gr loads. Advice? Thx

I purchased the same rifle I think. Stainless steel barrel, compostie stock, but I put a Powderhorn scope on mine. I also put a BlackHorn 209 breech plug in mine. I shoot 90 grains of powder out of it and its a very accurate rifle. I have been trying different powders and projectiles. I find it shoots about anything I want to try. Right now I am shooting .40 caliber 200 grain Shockwaves in a drk/blue 40/50 sabot. Really an accurate load.

It also shot powerbelts very well. And while I would hunt with a powerbelt if I had a chance, I think there are better projectiles out there. With powerbelts, shoot a lower powder charge. 70-80 grain range.

Cool. I bought this to extend mine and my sons deer seasons, as Indiana has a very nice 2 week muzzle loader season. I need it to be accurate to 100 yards,for now. Ill experiment with bullets and powder charges as I can. I had the store laser boresight it, so hopefully it'll be on paper at 50 yds.

I bought the Power belts and Pyrodex pellets, im not gonna lie, due to being on sale. I read somewhere Hornady 250gr SST bullets and loose 777 was the way to go, but with a powder measure would have doubled my costs. Illget that sooner or later

The Pyrodex Pellets will work fine. Two of them is all you need. In fact the best group I ever shot out of a muzzleloader in ages was shooting 2 pyrodex pellets and .452 diameter Barnes All copper MZ bullets. It was out of my Genesis but the three shot group measures .473 I believe it was. I was shocked that I could shoot that kind of group. I went on to testing Pyrodex and Triple Seven pellets. All I will say is.. I will never purchase Triple Seven pellets. They'd have to give them to me to make me shoot them again.

I wish you luck with the powerbelts. Put the shot behind the shoulder and not in it. There are stories of Powerbelts "blowing up" on contact with deer. So aim for the vitals, and good luck. Be sure to post your results. My Optima by the way shot powerbelts with amazing accuracy.

Thank you. I have since been reading about Powerbelts, and their issues. I doubt I'll return them, but after I shoot them all, will be getting something different. Figure they'll be OK for getting the scope dialed in.

So, what I've read, there is major gun to gun, powder to powder, bullet to bullet discrepancies with muzzleloaders. I don't have unlimited time and money to spend at the range tweaking, as this gun will be a hunting tool/meat provider as opposed to a recreational shooting item. I like easy. What I would like to find is what to buy next. Where I deer hunt, 125 yds is the farthest shot I can see myself being able TO take, so I will not be shooting magnum loads, nor do I need the best long range shooting bullets. And I plan to zero my scope at 50 yards. With my slug gun, I know the ballistics of the Remington 3" Copper Solids I shoot, and like the scope set 2" high at 50 yds, which puts it dead on at 100 and 2" low at 125. I'd like to recreate this with the Optima. Searching here, this sounds like a good next load. Thoughts?

I no longer have it but when I had my Optima I could shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards with the following load:

2 White Hots pellets
Remington KleanBore primers
300 grain Hornady SST-ML High Speed/Low Drag sabots

If you want an inexpensive bullet for deer hunting in the ranges you stated look for a box of Hornady .452 (45cal) 300 grain XTP's and get a bag of Harvester Black crushrib sabots. You could shoot them with your 2 pellet load too. For the ranges you are talking about you really don't need the pointed bullets, unless that is just what you want to shoot. My nephew shoots that XTP bullet and sabot with 2 777 pellets in his CVA Wolf and has taken deer out to 170 yards no problem.

cayuga said:

The Pyrodex Pellets will work fine. Two of them is all you need. In fact the best group I ever shot out of a muzzleloader in ages was shooting 2 pyrodex pellets and .452 diameter Barnes All copper MZ bullets. It was out of my Genesis but the three shot group measures .473 I believe it was. I was shocked that I could shoot that kind of group. I went on to testing Pyrodex and Triple Seven pellets. All I will say is.. I will never purchase Triple Seven pellets. They'd have to give them to me to make me shoot them again.

I wish you luck with the powerbelts. Put the shot behind the shoulder and not in it. There are stories of Powerbelts "blowing up" on contact with deer. So aim for the vitals, and good luck. Be sure to post your results. My Optima by the way shot powerbelts with amazing accuracy.

Click to expand...

So would you say the pyrodex pellets are much better than Triple Seven? Since I have never shot Triple Seven, always shot Pyrodex powder in my old Renegade. What is your experience with White Hots? BTW, I have never shot those either, so I am asking a lot of questions. But they are honest questions and I have no clue and really value your answers. Thanks!

Your 100 grain charge should be just fine. When compared with the same charge, 777 has more energy than Pyrodex. That's not to say Pyrodex won't get it done.

I'd think about transitioning to loose powder at some point. It's easier to ignite, usually cheaper, and you can adjust the load as desired.

My experience with pellets...

First off pellets are mean to be shot in inline rifles. Or at least rifles designed to shoot pellets. Most traditional rifles will not shoot pellets because of the #11 or musket ignition and the design of their drum or bolster. The few traditional rifle that shoot pellets are The T/C Black Mountain Magnum. My BMM will shoot pellets but I find I have to be VERY careful swabbing between shots. Too much liquid and you get problems. Traditions PA Pellet muzzle loader they claim will shoot pellets. I asked a PA Pellet owner about that and he told me the best results he had were when he poured 10 grains of black powder down the bore first then the pellets. So I asked him what the advantage of pellets were? He said.. none.

I got a deal on pellets at a Wal Mart end of the season sale. The Pyrodex pellets worked perfect. Let me add, I was very impressed with them and their accuracy. So much so that when I ran out, I even went back to purchase more. But they were out. The other local store in town was just too expensive to justify. The Triple Seven pellets... three boxes of them. Out of two boxes, I had numerous POOFS!! Where the rifle fired and I watched the projectile lob down range with no power behind it. I just could not depend on them. And the one box that shot good... the accuracy was not as good as I had with Pyrodex pellets. I once shot three loads of American Pioneer Sticks.... they went off. But I could not base any opinion on them with only three shots. I never shot the White Hot Pellets... but my understanding is.. they are uncolored Triple Seven Pellets.

Good info!

White Hots are unbleached 777 pellets? How can they claim "better" results?

Is Pyrodex way "dirtier" than 777? Whats the cleanest powder/pellets? And is it enough to even consider mattering?

bigben55 said:

Good info!

White Hots are unbleached 777 pellets? How can they claim "better" results?

Is Pyrodex way "dirtier" than 777? Whats the cleanest powder/pellets? And is it enough to even consider mattering?

Click to expand...

777 has more energy than Pyrodex, same charge. As far as cleanliness I treat them the same, and always clean the day I shot the gun. Either one will corrode the gun if not cleaned well relatively soon after shooting. Even Blackhorn 209 is much dirtier than any 'smokeless' powder out of a center fire.

Proper gun care after shooting goes hand in hand with shooting any muzzle-loader. Blackhorn 209 can buy one a few days though.

Took the CVA to the range today. First time I shot a muzzle loader in years! Very cool. Like I said, load was 100gr Pyrodex pellets, Remington Kleenbore primers, Powerbelt 245gr copper hollow points. We shot 16 times, running a windex wetted patch followed by a dry patch after every 2 shots. New gun, new scope. Got it on paper at 15 yds, back to 25, dialed in, back to 50(all the range I had), tweaked it and she is now dialed in. The Optima SHOOTS! Very impressed for the first time out. Both me and my 13 yo son shot 3 shot groups of 1 to 1 1/2" at 50yds, sitting in a chair with the gun propped on a sleeping bag on the shooting bench. That'll put the meat in the freezer.

Some observations. First, I should probably swab after every shot. I'd load and shoot, then load and shoot again. 2nd time was always harder to seat the bullet. Second, at the range, how do you all handle the breech plug? I fired 3 primers thru it before loading, then did nothing to it. It was VERY hard to remove by hand at the end of the day. Third, Pyrodex stinks and is IMO pretty dirty, but shoots darn well.

However hard it is to seat a bullet in a clean bore, one can expect it a bit harder in a fouled bore. If that 1st seating is a tad tight, maybe try a 'crush rib' sabot, which is more forgiving going down the bore.

I'm one who doesn't swab between any shooting or mess with the breech plug, at the range, or anywhere besides when time to clean. Shooting Blackhorn 209 with the proper bore fit allows that.

I realize you have a different gun setup. Some lube on the plug threads and taking it out fairly soon after shooting should help.

Thanks. Ill switch to Blackhorn when I shoot up these pellets. Want to try White Hots too. I know about the breech plug change for shooting blackhorn and to use CCI primers.

As good as (I thought) the power belts shot and ease of loading, I will see how they do with the first couple deer im Lucky enough to get a shot at before buying new. Im a bow Hunter and a slug gun Hunter, and expect a tad less than 12 ga terminal performance. The 3" Remington Copper Solids I shoot have planted bucks where they stood at 85 yds, and while my shoulder tells me 100gr of Pyrodex has less power than that slug, it also tells me its more than enough

Ive reloaded slugs for years. They will have the edge on sheer knockdown force. .510~ .520 grn lyman sabot slug. but the Muzzleloader have the edge on accuracy AND range