Cabelas Investarms 50.Cal help please

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BNC04

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Hi, My cousin was given this gun recently and is not too internet savvy so I'm posting for him. The gun is a percussion model and never been fired.
He will be hunting in Colorado this fall and wonders if the gun is capable of shooting bullets without a patch? Will powerbelts work in this gun? In Colorado you have to use loose powder and Sabots are not allowed so Powerbelts are pretty common choice.

Thanks in advance,
Brett
 
Hornady great plains or if you can find some buffalo ballets or bullets - I have this rifle (my first muzzle loader) - great shooter and hunting rifle - did change nipple from #11 to musket cap.
 
The 1-48 twist the rifle has shoots a lot of different projectiles but you have to try them to find out. I know that my friends Cabela's Investarms will shoot round ball real well. It also shoots REAL conicals pretty good. Another projectile you might want to try are the No Excuses conicals in 460 grain. Whether they can be shot you have to try. Some of my 1-48 rifles shoot them, and others don't. One other projectile to try is Maxi Ball 370 grain. They normally shoot real well.
 
Thanks for the replies, Do the above bullets require a cloth patch as well? Would a powerbelt in tis gun require a cloth patch in this gun? I have a Thompson Prohunter and use powerbelts which group great for me but I have no idea if his gun REQUIRES patches or if a powerbelt type design is also something that will work in his gun without a patch.

Sorry for the newb questions. I just don't want him shooting these without a patch if one is needed. I'll probably suggest the Horonady great plains in 385 with 80-100 grains of triple 7 to start with
Brett
 
Also remember, depending on the weight of the conical bullet, the powder charge size looses importance. Depending on the animal you hunt, a friend of mine shoots deer all the time with only 70 grains of Pyrodex RS and a REAL bullet. I shot 65 grains of Triple Seven with a 460 grain conical bullet and it drove 8 inches into a poplar firewood piece. So large heavy conicals can get some impressive penetration without a lot of powder.
 
Interesting info from experienced guys, I'm glad to have found the site and others willing to share and help. I am also new to muzzle loading (just a few weeks now) with a CVA Optima v2 inline. My intention is to use this for whitetail deer in Virginia, after taking them previously with modern rifles.

I bought a number of packs of Thompson Center Shockwave 300 grain plastic spire with sabots at a very good prices, but now looking at alternatives.

I'm sure sabots must have some benefits, but from what I am reading and seeing after already 48 rounds, is the plastic sabots seem to cause a lot of fouling making for tight loads on second, and very tight on subsequent shots if I don't do a quick swab between shots.

Now I'm looking at alternatives, like the Hormady Great Plains, Hornady FPB and Rainier 50 cals for reasonably priced shooting with no sabots. Any opinions on the Rainier? Clearly it is not the same as PowerBelts, but they cost a lot less and allow for more practice which is always good, especially for newbies. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/569612 ... c=wishList

Until now I've been sticking with 100 grain loads of Pyrodex RS even though in theory I can shoot 150 grains. Seeing cayuga and others using 65 and 70 grains with 460 grain bullets is making me totally rethink even 100 grains of powder! How much difference in drop will 100 grains down to 65 or 70 make over 100 yards? Or is it more about muzzle / target velocity at that point, rather than bullet drop?
 
allanm said:
Interesting info from experienced guys, I'm glad to have found the site and others willing to share and help. I am also new to muzzle loading (just a few weeks now) with a CVA Optima v2 inline. My intention is to use this for whitetail deer in Virginia, after taking them previously with modern rifles.

I bought a number of packs of Thompson Center Shockwave 300 grain plastic spire with sabots at a very good prices, but now looking at alternatives.

I'm sure sabots must have some benefits, but from what I am reading and seeing after already 48 rounds, is the plastic sabots seem to cause a lot of fouling making for tight loads on second, and very tight on subsequent shots if I don't do a quick swab between shots.

Now I'm looking at alternatives, like the Hormady Great Plains, Hornady FPB and Rainier 50 cals for reasonably priced shooting with no sabots. Any opinions on the Rainier? Clearly it is not the same as PowerBelts, but they cost a lot less and allow for more practice which is always good, especially for newbies. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/569612 ... c=wishList

Until now I've been sticking with 100 grain loads of Pyrodex RS even though in theory I can shoot 150 grains. Seeing cayuga and others using 65 and 70 grains with 460 grain bullets is making me totally rethink even 100 grains of powder! How much difference in drop will 100 grains down to 65 or 70 make over 100 yards? Or is it more about muzzle / target velocity at that point, rather than bullet drop?
Click to expand...


I shoot an Optima .50 caliber with a Redfield scope on it. Some things I did to make shooting more enjoyable. I put a BlackHorn 209 breech plug in mine. This makes shoot ALL loose powder very consistent. I am shooting Black Horn 209 right now. 90 grains to be exact. BUT once I run out of BH209 the rifle will be used with 2f Triple Seven. As I tried both powders. Almost identical in accuracy. And I don't mind swabbing between shots like many here, so Triple Seven will work perfect for me. And I have lots of it.

With Pyrodex RS be sure to swab between shots. Go to the Dollar Store and get some Glass Cleaner. Lightly spritz a patch and in short strokes work that down and then back up out of the barrel. Follow that with a couple dry patches. (I use old torn up 100% cotton T shirts, I tear by hand into strips.) Then load the next round. This makes loading very easy with sabots. If its loading hard still, go to a crushed rib sabot. This will cure that. Some bullets I shoot that are accurate... 260 grain Scorpion Harvester PT Golds and the Scorpion Funnel nose (same bullet without the point). Others are the .40 caliber 200 grain Shockwave in blue harvester sabots. These are excellent shooters and from all the field posts I read on them, an excellent deer bullet. I also shoot 300 grain Speer Deep Curl and 300 grain Hornady XTP. All of these are good bullets.
 
Thanks, that was quick. :) I don't mind the swabbing as much as I want to improve as I learn and gain experience, and wondering if plain bullets are any better in terms of accuracy or ease of use than sabots.

I ended up putting a Bushnell Trophy XLT DOA scope on mine, my budget didn't go out to Nikon or Leupold glass, but I really like my Optima with the Bushnell. I set it up at 50 initially, then finished sighting at 100 yards on Saturday. Yesterday I took my daughter to let her try it, had her shooting clays at 50 yards with a 2 inch hold under and she was excited about hitting the clays with every shot. For a small 24 year old (5'2" or so) with 100 grain powder loads, she handled the recoil well and got comfortable very quickly.
 
The hard loading is not likely from the plastic sabot fouling the bore. You may need to experiment with different sabots as Cayuga said. Most likely the hard loading is due to the fouling from the Pyrodex Powder. That is normal for Black Powder, Pyrodex and 777. A quick swab gets rid of the fouling especially the crud ring that forms at the base of the sabot from the powder. 100 grains of loose Pyrodex with a 300 grain bullet in a sabot has been my standard hunting load for many years, but each shooter and rifle are different.
 
Thanks Shawn, it's good to get other perspectives also - another benefit to me having found the forum and not just gone off trying things on my own, or listening to a sales guy in the store who often doesn't always know a whole lot anyway.

So cayuga as another Optima shooter may also be best to advise me or anyone else - for the QRBP, it's not so much of the quick release easy twist for me after 10 shots. I have ended up needing to use a ratchet at least once. Am I expecting too much, am I putting on too little or too much plug grease? I tried a small amount one time, and liberal amount the next time, it didn't seem to make a lot of difference either way. It still gets good and tight so I need to use a tool, be it a screwdriver, or ratchet. Being somewhat OCD I really don't like getting things scratched. :)

Actually, also after cayuga's response on the Blackhorn plug, I might get one of those too, just to have the option of any powder. They don't cost all that much.
 
You might try some Permatex anti-seize lubricant on the breech plug. It's available at any auto parts store.
775-81343.jpg

you know, that silver stuff you use to keep lug nuts from seizing on your hubs? It is messy but it works well. I've quit using it in favor of some plain old Walmart auto grease in a tube.

As for fouling, once you get the BH209 breech plug, get some Federal 209A or CCi 209M primers and some Blackhorn 209 powder. I've shot as many as 20 rounds in a session with the T/C yellow sabots and never needed to swab the barrel in my Optima Pro or V2. With Black MZ, I could go maybe 3 shots before needing a swab, but unless I swabbed between each shot, accuracy suffered. The only redeeming feature of Black MZ is it's price. It's normally 1/2 that of BH209 per pound and I got a bunch at $10/pound which made it an even better bargain. For punching paper at the range, at that price I'll shoot baking soda and vinegar if it shot the bullets fast enough :).
 
Thanks rsocket1, I will take a look at Permatex. I emailed the CVA guys also and asked about how much anti-seize to use. They said use less than I have, and don't go all the way to the end of the thread sin the bore because that will also add to fouling.

Good to know about the BlackHorn powder - I wondered about that with the big price difference, but now will seriously consider it along with the appropriate breech plug based on your experience with fouling.

I knew looking to others with similar interests for advice would be better than experimenting alone. :)
 
Unless you are shooting 777 powder, all you need on the breechplug threads is the plumbers white teflon tape. See if your plug allows two layers and if not, then use just one. No mess, as with the anti-seize lubricant.
 
I went to a Wal Mart five or six years ago and purchased in the automotive department a tube of "Slick 50 One Grease" That is my breech plug grease. I smear a thin coat on the plug, set it, and shoot all day and the BP backs right out. If you are having troubles with it sticking, nothing says after shooting say, four times, give that thing a twist out, then back in to set. That keeps the fouling from building and getting hard. I have to do that with my Black Diamond or you need a wrench to get it out.

I have only started shooting other powders in my Optima other then Black Horn. I purchased the rifle specifically to shoot Black Horn 209. And I had terrible experiences trying to shoot BH out of the factory breech plug. So I purchase the new plug. I purchased 5 pounds of Black Horn 209 and am almost out of it. When I am done, it will become a black powder, Schuetzen to be correct, rifle. I like to shoot black powder. Then I will see if I experience any plug lock ups.

Thanks for the heads up.
 

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