Shot Placement for White Tails

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CzyLry

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I shot a really nice buck last year with my new Buck Stalker muzzle loader... My first deer ever with a Muzzle Loader!!!
100 grains of powder and a Sabot.
When I retrieved the buck... Thank the LORD I saw him fall... There wasn't a single drop of blood.
I had a buddy of mine help me retrieve him. We both searched EXTENSIVELY for even the slightest hint of a wound or bullet hole...Nothing
At one point, we both joked about thinking the deer actually may have had a heart attack....
It wasn't till we cut the deer open that we saw where the bullet hit... Dead Center of the heart...
The buck only ran about 30-40 YDS so I am VERY thankful I was able to see where he fell....
But it got me thinking....
With no blood trail, and the deer actually running away.... Did I make a good shot even though it was a dead center heart hit?
I have hunted deer with a bow for years so I just assumed that the shot placement was the same for a Muzzle loader as it is for an arrow....
Watching the hunting shows on TV... I see the deer drop like a stone right where they are shot...

Where should I be aiming with a muzzle loader??? Is it the same as it is for archery???
Hope that's not too noob of a question...Thanks in advance....
 

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Being and archer myself I aim my ml'er the same place I would place my pin. Heart lung area. It's about 9"s there where the lung heart and liver come close together. If you gut shot a deer, there is a possibility that you'll never recover it. Put that bullet and or broadhead in the boiler room and you can't go wrong. Like everything else, shot placement is the game.

Ray.......... :yeah:
 
Thanks for the reply Ray...
I guess I was VERY concerned with the fact that there was no blood or no blood trail. If I hand't seen the deer fall, I would have never recovered him. That's why I was thinking that there may be better shot placement when I am using a scoped Muzzle loader....
Maybe the Spine, or ??? I can be a LOT more accurate with the ML than I can with my bow so i can be more selective where I am aiming
I have NO Problems hitting the vitals and this particular shot was literally DEAD CENTER of the heart.... He only ran a few yards so I was lucky... I cringe at the idea of making a good shot and losing the deer though... that's my concern...
 
I have to agree with hogslayer. I like to shoot them in the boiler room too. Also I have done high shoulder shots. While that plants them where they stand, often times they are not dead. Neck shots work good too. But again the spine is a small target.
 
Did your shot involve the shoulder or an area with a lot of thick muscle? These type of shots are where I have seen no blood trails.

All of our broadside shots through the lung area have had blood trails, some sparse with high shots, some splashed blood everywhere with lower shots.

Nice buck!
 
What Bullet, powder and charge were you shooting. Did the bullet exit the deer, or just and entrance?

Nothing wrong with your shot placement. Congrads on your first ML deer harvest. :yeah:
 
ShawnT said:
What Bullet, powder and charge were you shooting. Did the bullet exit the deer, or just and entrance?

Nothing wrong with your shot placement. Congrads on your first ML deer harvest. :yeah:

X2...What bullet? I use to have the same issue until I changed to the Hornady XTPs and unless my shot hits bone I have pretty much had drop on the spot or short blood trails from pass through.
 
CzyLry said:
Watching the hunting shows on TV... I see the deer drop like a stone right where they are shot...
The first 2 deer my hunting partner ever shot, he thought he missed the first because it didn't drop on the spot. So, he shot the next one that walked by. That one too didn't drop.

I finally walked over, and both ran 30-40 yards before falling. Thankfully there were tags and no problems with that, but he was so used to watching hunting shows that he thought they'd all just drop when shot.

I've taken or seen taken a fair amount of whitetail deer. My rule is that they ALL run, no matter where they are hit unless it's the neck or spine. It's the anomaly that one drops on the spot, no matter what you see on TV. I always wonder how many spine-shot deer they have, as they so rarely show where the bullet hit when doing the close up shots.

As others noted, what bullet did you use? I've had the same problem as you when using the TC Shockwave bullet, so moved on to a Barnes.
 
Thanks for all the reply's
I was using 100 grains (2 pellets) of powder and Hornady 250 gr. Sabot's.

Shot placement was at 40yds and from about 15 feet above the deer on an angle. (If that makes sense). Bullet passed literally dead center of the heart. It was a pass through shot and didn't hit any bone that I could see. We looked REALLY closely to the exterior of the body and never did find an entrance or exit hole. Only evidence that I had hit it (other than the dead body) was the hole through the heart. Not a single drop of blood on the outside of the deer anywhere.


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You can speculate blood trails until the cows come home, but sometimes there is just no explanation. There are some general rules that can apply, but every shot is different. Distances, angles, body size, bone structure, fat on the animal...the list goes on. One thing about a heart shot from a tree stand is the exit can be in the brisket. There is a lot of fat in that area and since everything is draining down, that hole can become clogged quick. I shot a doe like that about 10 years ago. She ran about 60 yards and I had a heck of a time finding her. I could only find about 3 of the smallest drops of blood you can imagine and that's it.


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Ive shot a few that were 2 holers and in the boiler room and the blood trail petered out after a short time. The holes seem to get plugged with fat and they bleed internally. I usually found them after a lengthy grid search and determination. Many times you can see the hit, the deer sends a kind of dust cloud like they were slapped.
 
CzyLry said:
Thanks for all the reply's
I was using 100 grains (2 pellets) of powder and Hornady 250 gr. Sabot's.

Shot placement was at 40yds and from about 15 feet above the deer on an angle. (If that makes sense). Bullet passed literally dead center of the heart. It was a pass through shot and didn't hit any bone that I could see. We looked REALLY closely to the exterior of the body and never did find an entrance or exit hole. Only evidence that I had hit it (other than the dead body) was the hole through the heart. Not a single drop of blood on the outside of the deer anywhere.


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Was the 250gn Hornady the SST's or the XTP?

I am betting that it is the SST. I would also bet that there was a very small exit hole no bigger then the entrance hole on the hair side of the hide, probably under the arm pit on the off side and it never hit a bone. I have seen that myself once and there have been a few reported this too. Most of us call it a "Pencil" though as the bullet did not expand. Then probably the Hide and some fat just plugged the exit hole so you saw no blood. It sounded like you were Up in a tree stand so your shot should be at a downward angle so you would think that you should get a good blood trail. But If something did plug that exit hole you would see a little or no blood.

In pretty much all instances like this reported the SST, or shockwave, was shot with a 2 pellet load. It has been said, but I have not yet tested it myself but hope to later this year, that 2 pellets "That are said 100 grains" is actually closer to the equivalent of say 85 grains of loose powder and therefore shoots slower. In all cases I have read about that shot 100 grains (or More) of LOOSE powder had no problems with these bullets expanding. IF you are shooting the SST and want to stay with it I would switch to loose powder and stay at 100 grains or more and bet your results would improve. If you want to stay with the 2 pellet charge I would suggest you switch to the XTP and it should give you better results with the 2 pellets charge.
 
Ditch the SST. I lost a doe two seasons ago to it. Chip shot at less than 40 yards. She went down, kicked around for several seconds, then got up and ran off with a clearly broken limping front leg. Never found her. Not a single drop of blood. And yes, it was two 777 pellets and the 250 gr SST.

I've since switched to BH 209 with 250 gr Barnes TEZs. Not going back. Wouldn't shoot the Shockwave (SST) if you gave them to me.

Emrah


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I would never say a shot through the heart is a bad shot, but destroying the heart can mean it is not able to pump blood while the deer is in flight mode. Couple that with a penciling bullet, high shot or other anomaly and no blood trail could be the result. My biggest blood trail was with a less than perfect shot that was a little too far back - it still hit the lungs but the heart was completely intact, so it was pumping a ton of blood till the last. Where she lay, about fifty yards from the shot, looked like a murder scene out of CSI.
 
I've heard the same things about the sst/shockwaves. I went with the xtp's last year after having trouble getting a new gun to shoot. Shooting 2 pellets I dropped 2 deer in their tracks an hour apart. That being said, I have enough pellets to get me through this year, next year I'll be switching things up


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And on an unrelated note, heart shots are no doubt deadly, but I would rather shoot them through the lungs and eat the heart.


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WoW!!! Some GREAT info here!! Thank you!!!!

Yes, Hornady SST... Sounds like I am looking for a new round now.

A buddy has suggested Powerbelt AeroTips. Said he has had great results with them and they sell them 2 miles from my house at our local Rural King. Having said that, I am not against ordering offline or something like that. Same buddy also suggested stepping up to 3 pellets of 777. The Traditions is rated to be able to handle that but I wanted my 11 year old to also be able to shoot it. That's why I sighted in using only the 2 pellets. I personally would rather use the 3 pellets and have the faster round but???

Thoughts???


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CzyLry said:
A buddy has suggested Powerbelt AeroTips. Said he has had great results with them and they sell them 2 miles from my house at our local Rural King. Having said that, I am not against ordering offline or something like that. Same buddy also suggested stepping up to 3 pellets of 777. The Traditions is rated to be able to handle that but I wanted my 11 year old to also be able to shoot it. That's why I sighted in using only the 2 pellets. I personally would rather use the 3 pellets and have the faster round but???

Thoughts???

Regarding the Powerbelts, I suggest you do a search on here and draw your own conclusions. I've never used them so can't say anything first hand about their effectiveness. But at well over a dollar a bullet I look elsewhere. Hard to go wrong with basic Hornady XTPs, which you can also get most places that sell ML supplies.

Regarding the pellets, my advice is to shoot for accuracy. If you are hitting what you are aiming at with two pellets, there is little reason to move up to three. Of course many on this site will tell you to move to loose powder, but again, if you are getting good accuracy with the pellets, worry more about the bullet at this point.
 
As far as the powerbelts are concerned, I would avoid that. Liked mentioned above there is plenty of info on this site on them. I've killed 5 deer with them, and though every deer was very dead, I never got an exit and found lots of pieces of bullet in the deer. Xtp's are a great bullet but not necessarily a bullet you want to push too fast. 150 gr of power and a close range shot could cause over expansion and low penetration. Unless you need the extra range, 2 pellets and an xtp can be a great combo out to about 150 yards.


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