First trip with new Mountaineer. So so results

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sabotloader said:
Kraig, when you install the new plug and if you read that post on shimming, there is a method to tell if you are getting the correct head space. If you remove the hammer assembly from the bolt and insert the bolt in the rifle and the primer in the nose you will be able to feel if you are getting compression of the primer.

It is unfortunate that your rifle did not come the way you would have liked it. With the Knight bolt there are several things that can effect the headspace including the length of primer you choose to use. I really hope you get it all worked out.

O and as Ron indicated the 'flash channel' is larger than you might think. You do need a 5/32" bit for that project.

I’ll have to get the 5/32” bit for my range box. Glad U guys brought that to my attention. Even still, this problem was from the get go anyway, but still good to know.

Sabot loader - with this new Breech plug I received, can I test it out with just firing a primer in it to see if my primers are sticking or do I have to actually fire a load?

Yeah it does suck my Knight didn’t come the way I was “expecting” it to, but things happen and I’m not crying over it. It’s just frustrating knowing that I spent $1000 on something that I apparently have to do modifications to, where if I maybe would have gotten something different it doesn’t seem like I would have to deal with all these things and I could just go to the range and enjoy shooting it without taking it apart after every shot.


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Kraig said:
sabotloader said:
Kraig, when you install the new plug and if you read that post on shimming, there is a method to tell if you are getting the correct head space. If you remove the hammer assembly from the bolt and insert the bolt in the rifle and the primer in the nose you will be able to feel if you are getting compression of the primer.

It is unfortunate that your rifle did not come the way you would have liked it. With the Knight bolt there are several things that can effect the headspace including the length of primer you choose to use. I really hope you get it all worked out.

O and as Ron indicated the 'flash channel' is larger than you might think. You do need a 5/32" bit for that project.

I’ll have to get the 5/32” bit for my range box. Glad U guys brought that to my attention. Even still, this problem was from the get go anyway, but still good to know.

Kraig I make what I call a "bit on a stick" just for that purpose when I am at the range - hunting no big deal you probably will not shoot it enough to get the big build up. Just remember the mag primers fill much quicker than regular primers.

This is the short one for my Omega - but I have a long one for the Knight. Just pull the bolt and drill away...

Bit_on_a_Stick.jpg


Here is the long one for the Knight

Long_BP_Cleaner.jpg


Sabot loader - with this new Breech plug I received, can I test it out with just firing a primer in it to see if my primers are sticking or do I have to actually fire a load?

You could but I am not sure that will give you an accurate picture because you will not have the blow back from the load in the picture. One sure thing doing it that way is you will be able to see if the primer is getting blow back up the outside wall.

They should come out clean like these...

265_Misc_Pics.jpg


These are Remington 209-4 primers that I have shimmed the plug to accept.

Yeah it does suck my Knight didn’t come the way I was “expecting” it to, but things happen and I’m not crying over it. It’s just frustrating knowing that I spent $1000 on something that I apparently have to do modifications to, where if I maybe would have gotten something different it doesn’t seem like I would have to deal with all these things and I could just go to the range and enjoy shooting it without taking it apart after every shot.
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Kraig it could have been as simple as the rifle next door... when the guy/gal went to pack your order he grabbed the one on top of the pile and sent it while the next one down could have been perfect.
 
Thanks SabotLoader. Some great info right there. Definitely like that “bit on a stick idea”, then I don’t have to remove plug to clean it.

If I remember right, my primers were sticking with just a fouling shot, so maybe I’ll fire a CCI209M through the new plug, see what happens, then fire a Win209 and see what it does too. I may sound really dumb here, but there MAY have been a time or two where my plug possibly wasn’t fully tight neither because I was using the supplied wrench and may not have gotten the full “tightness”. I now have a ratchet and extension in my range box and also used it to install my new plug so I know it’s tight.

Keeping my fingers crossed that I won’t have to worry about shimming anything.


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Kraig,

Do you have a dial caliper? If you do you can install the new plug and then test the primers by measuing the primer from the box, install in rifle and close the bolt, then take it out and measure it again to see how much crush you get.
 
ShawnT said:
Kraig,

Do you have a dial caliper? If you do you can install the new plug and then test the primers by measuing the primer from the box, install in rifle and close the bolt, then take it out and measure it again to see how much crush you get.

I do not have one, but I think I know where I can get access to one.

If I can get one, how much crush should I be getting?


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.003 /1000 crush seems to eliminate all blowback.

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Kraig said:
ShawnT said:
Kraig,

Do you have a dial caliper? If you do you can install the new plug and then test the primers by measuing the primer from the box, install in rifle and close the bolt, then take it out and measure it again to see how much crush you get.

I do not have one, but I think I know where I can get access to one.

If I can get one, how much crush should I be getting?


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You would not want more than .005 on a Win209 primer as they are long and that would be about .003 with something shorter like the CCI.
 
Re: RE: Re: First trip with new Mountaineer. So so results

ronlaughlin said:
herschel conyers said:
.003 /1000 crush seems to eliminate all blowback.
You intended to write 0.003". What you wrote was 0.000003" which wouldn't accomplish anything except make me smile. [WHITE SMILING FACE]
My mistake, Im smiling too.

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sabotloader said:
1. Contact Knight via email. Address it to Justin Perry, explain your problem, which he is really familiar with and he will get it fixed for you.

I contacted Justin, and in so many words he strongly recommends I use Win209 as they normally have a better fit for this gun. He thinks with the new breech plug and using Win209s the blowback issue (and hopefully the stuck primers) should be fixed. And the best part, he said if it doesn’t improve he will pay to have me send it in and they will fix the issue in house.

Makes me sleep a little better tonight.

I work the next couple days but on my next day off I’ll fire one off out back and see what happens.

I’ll report back with my findings.


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Hey quick (dumb) question -

Plan on firing a load off here shortly to see if this blowback issue is resolved or not, can I throw in a couple T7 pellets instead of my BH209? Shouldn’t make a difference should it? I’m cheap, just wanna save on the expensive BH if I can.

Thanks guys (hope this thing is resolved)


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Wouldn't increasing the size of the fire channel in the breach plug do anything to help. just guessing here.
 
Ok so I ended up shooting a load with BH209 (90gr), the new breech plug and Win209 primers (instead of the CCI209M).

Primer came out clean as a whistle. Blowback issue seems to be resolved. Thank God

However, the primer still stayed stuck in the slot on the bolt face. So I did what was recommended to me on this forum and re-cocked the bolt and fired and although it didn’t just fall out, it took minimal effort. A huge improvement from before where I literally had to remove the bolt and use a screwdriver and yank it out.

I think a stuck primer to me isn’t worth sending the gun to Knight. Slightly annoying, but I guess I can live with it.

Just happy the blowback issue is solved.

I appreciate everyone’s help on this frustrating matter. Knight’s CS was pretty good too so I’ll give em credit. I’d give em an A+ if they sent me a free can of BH lol




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Kraig said:
Ok so I ended up shooting a load with BH209 (90gr), the new breech plug and Win209 primers (instead of the CCI209M).

Primer came out clean as a whistle. Blowback issue seems to be resolved. Thank God

However, the primer still stayed stuck in the slot on the bolt face. So I did what was recommended to me on this forum and re-cocked the bolt and fired and although it didn’t just fall out, it took minimal effort. A huge improvement from before where I literally had to remove the bolt and use a screwdriver and yank it out.

I think a stuck primer to me isn’t worth sending the gun to Knight. Slightly annoying, but I guess I can live with it.

Just happy the blowback issue is solved.

I appreciate everyone’s help on this frustrating matter. Knight’s CS was pretty good too so I’ll give em credit. I’d give em an A+ if they sent me a free can of BH lol




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Sounds like the head space is almost there but still a tad long. How many primers/loads did you try? Primers will vary a little in length even in the same box. That primer on a clean rifle should just fall out. The fact that you can drop the firing pin on it a second time and take it out with minimal effort seems to indicate that the primer is backing out of the cup a small amount.

One other thing you should check close is the slot in the bolt. Make sure you don't have some dirt in the corners of the slot or even a small burr.
 
@ShawnT

I only fired one load/primer as it was raining out. I wanted to at least get a sample of what the new breech plus/primers were gonna result in.

I’ll check that slot out and see if there is anything that sticks out to me. Is there a recommended way to clean that part?


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Kraig said:
@ShawnT

I only fired one load/primer as it was raining out. I wanted to at least get a sample of what the new breech plus/primers were gonna result in.

I’ll check that slot out and see if there is anything that sticks out to me. Is there a recommended way to clean that part?


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The Blow back is what would really dirty that slot up. But it will still get stuff in it now and then. I use the end of a wood handle Q-tip and even sharpen the tip of the q-tip and use that, so it don't scratch it, with some solvent. If need be you can use a small dental type pick.

I would still think the head space is now closer but still not quite were it needs to be, without a caliper to measure crush on the primer it is sort of a guessing game. .003 to .005 crush will prevent the Primer cap from backing out of the cup when you fire a charge, and cover any variation between primers. The back pressure pushes it out when you have too much head space. When the head space is right then the bolt face is pressing that primer tight to the bottom of the pocket so nothing can move.

Did you toss the spent primer? if you have it look to see if it has the center part raised up out of the cup.
 
Finally found time to get muzzleloader back to the range, this time with the goal of getting it sighted in. Only 6 more days left of MI muzzleloader season. First 2 shots at 25 yards were right on top of each other using 300 grain Scorpion PT Gold, 110 grains BH209. No blowback. 2” low. Moved out to 100, first shot low, second shot maybe 3” away, [emoji35], blowback noticed on primer. Made scope adjustments. Got the next 2 shots 1.5” apart from each other around bullseye.

Now, I wasn’t in a hurry today, but my goal was to get sighted in for deer season, not to find the best load combination as I didn’t have all day today (and it was 25 degrees out). I’m good to go for hunting. But still is frustrating that I’m having blowback, and still having stuck primers no matter how clean I get that primer slot and how many times I re-fire the primer.

Also, was having problems with the polymer tips coming off the bullets. Not very impressed with that.

Better than last range trip i suppose, and I know I can work up a perfect load to get good groups, but walked away shaking my head once again.

Will be contacting Knight. Again.


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Kraig said:
........... Only 6 more days left of MI muzzleloader season...........

Unless you're in zones 1 or 2 and it ends tomorrow. And we just got our first tracking snow in the NEL zone 2 :(

Good luck down below.....
 
ENCORE50A said:
Kraig said:
........... Only 6 more days left of MI muzzleloader season...........

Unless you're in zones 1 or 2 and it ends tomorrow. And we just got our first tracking snow in the NEL zone 2 :(

Good luck down below.....

I’m in Zone 3, ends on the 17th.


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Old post, but to update, Knight is sending me ANOTHER new breech plug and also a whole new bolt. Pretty darn good CS to do that for me, but I’m having my doubts unfortunately. If this doesn’t fix it I’ll probably send it to Bestill as many have recommended.

This gun must be mad at me for talking bad about it because it popped me between the eyes yesterday shooting off a round, leaving me bleeding . Ouch that hurts.


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