New Optima sighting in struggle

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MN Muzzle

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Hello, new to muzzleloading. Picked up an Optima recently. I am shooting 100g of white hots with 295g power belts and 250g Barnes tez. I am using the factory fiber optic sights. At 20 yards 4 shots were touching each other but 4 inches low. Adjusted the rear sight up, now 2" low. Adjusted it again, it is now half way off the mounting slide, shooting about 1" low still. I don't think I should adjust it up anymore for its already sitting half way off the mount, above the hash marks. Anyone come across this before? I would be up a crick if I wanted to shoot farther than 50 yards, granted with open sights that's a stretch. But it still doesn't seem right. Thanks.
 
MN Muzzle, I had the same issue. Did you get it sorted out? Rather than retype here I'm cut-n-pasting a letter I wrote to CVA on the issue. Let me know what you think.
I recently purchased a CVA muzzle loader, model PR2024S Optima V2 Northwest legal version (October 25, 2017) from Muzzle_loader.com. There were two problems with the gun I received. First, it arrived new in the box without a front sight. Second, after receiving the correct front sight (DS001) from Muzzle_loader.com it shot a 3-shot ragged one-hole group at 25 yards but would not hit a vital area size target at 50 yards and beyond making it useless as a big game hunting weapon. (I’ll mention here that I handload ammunition for my guns, know how to work up a proper accurate load, and most all my guns I’ve developed a sub 1” group loading. I’ve been shooting for over 40 years so am not a novice.) I am surprised to purchase a gun from a reputable company that would not shoot “out of the box”.
I’ll focus this letter on the second most important issue. The factory sights when used with Northwest regulation big game loads produced points of impact 8 inches low at 50 yards and 14 inches low at 100 yards when set at their highest setting. The gun shot good 3-shot groups with the open sights but could not be brought up in elevation to get on the target. I purchased a Williams peep sight #70154 specified by Williams as the CVA muzzle loader sight. When installed on my gun it shot the same points of impact as factory sights. I contacted Muzzle_loader.com by phone and received no assistance with the sight problem. I contacted CVA.com via email and they sent replacement factory sights with a comment that was the only sights they have, period. Again, no help. I scoured the internet and found many blog comments about the improper factory sight, failure of the Williams peep #70154, use of shimming, and use of a lower front sight. Some dating back to 2009 and as recent as 2016.
It is apparent to me that no one at BPI Outdoors, Inc, CVA, Muzzle_loader.com, nor Williams sight companies have ever shot the CVA Optima V2 Northwest version with a proper northwest big game load. I suggest you do so at 100 yards with an elk load of Hornady 50 caliber 385 grain conical over 100 grains Pyrodex loose powder and RWS musket cap, or similar Northwest legal loading sufficient for elk. (you’ll need a large piece of cardboard to register the impact point.)

After trial and error of adding shims to raise the rear sight to the proper height and trial and error of using a lower front sight I have shot two containers of bullets (40 bullets) and over ½ pound of Pyrodex RS and taken 5 days of shooting on my own range to figure out the solution to the improper sight problem. I discovered that the proper sight combination is the DS001 Firesight (0.485 “) and increased shimmed height of 0.174 inches is required for either the factory rear sight or the Williams peep sight. I achieved this proper rear sight height with a section of 1 inch diameter Schedule 40 PVC grey conduit (0.147” thick) and a section of credit card (0.027” thick).
I recommend that you all increase the height of rear sights for the CVA muzzle loaders Northwest version by 0.174 inches. This should become the normal parts of the conversion to NW version weapon. This would save your customers a lot of time and frustration not to mention increase the positive comments about your products. I would like to receive a response from each of your companies as I’ve invested significant time and effort to resolve this issue.

So, all in all, CVA sent me a replacement sight set, the same exact sights I already told them wouldn't work, and said that was all they had. Muzzleloader.com sent me a package of Powerbelt 295 lead bullets to try.
This would be end of story, however now I'm trying to get a scope to work on the gun and having similar issues.
 

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I've had the same problems when changing from factory iron sights to peeps. Knight used to have a custom shop, and they put the wrong height front sight on my MK-85. I had a lower one put on locally. More recently, I wanted to put a peep on a TC Northwest Explorer. At the suggestion of the gunsmith, I called the Williams sight company customer service to see what front sight they recommended for the setup with their WGRS peep. Makes sense, they should know, right? Not so much. They did confirm that I needed a front ramp cut for a .875 inch diameter barrel, which correlated to their 12 gauge shotgun front ramp. That much was helpful. (I got their "shorty" ramp, and it fit fine.) So now looking at midwayusa.com to pick out a lower front sight height.

I do like dirtfarmer's idea of shimming the rear sight with an old credit card. I'll have to try it and see if the mounting screws are long enough.
 
Wow, that is unfortunate.

Fellow Northwesterner here, doing research.

If I were to get the Optima, I would also want the rear peep. Since they are more precise, at least for me.

Just curious, can you at least zero it for elevation properly by using the original rear open sight that is mounted forward in the factory-stock configuration?

Wonder if it is just a rear peep problem?

Regards,

Buster
 
I have read that these Ace In The Hole rail mount and rear sight combos MAY be a little taller, allowing the rear sight to be raised higher, and thus bring your point of impact up.

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/cva-ace- ... sight.html

Lowering the front sight might be another option.

There is a Williams .445 height front sight at Midway:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/38624 ... -optic-red

And a Marble .405 front sight, which is out of stock currently:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/18288 ... iber-optic

A reviewer of the Marble sight said they could get it zeroed with a CVA, but the info is 6 years old. This is what they said:

“More importantly, this sight allowed me to zero both my CVA inline muzzleloaders (45 and 50 cal) after installing Williams peep sights. The front sight supplied with the Williams kit is too tall--at least for shooting pure lead conicals (NW rules permit lead-only for ML hunts.) It's the same with the original CVA front sights and the Williams peep rear sight. Unless you're pushing a very light bullet very hard (and probably losing accuracy), the Williams and CVA sights are too tall for use with the Williams peep rear sight. The hottest load I'm willing to shoot is a 350 grain bullet (BC=.242) in my .45 at 1470 fps, and even that load would max-out the rear sight at 125 yards until I installed this Marble's front sight.”

I could not begin to set up the Black Magic trigonometry equation to determine what lower height of front sight is needed to not have to shim the rear sight, but apparently .405 worked at least once.
 
A few years ago i got a yearning for a break action rifle; Triumph comb was too high for iron sights, so i ended up with an Accura. Old eyes required me to use a peep sight, and it turned out, then as now, the front sight was too high. So i cobbled together a cure which allowed the use of the factory front sight.


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The sight worked good. Actually killed two deer with the rifle, before i realized i didn't much care for a break action rifle, and went back to my Omega rifles.

The sight hasn't been used in years; if the OP wants it, a deal would be easy to close.
 
Cva northwest Williams peep with a smaller .48 pistol front sight drives nails at 100 yards enough adjust to left in the sight to dial it to 150 yards no need to shim rear sight
 
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