Good 50 Cal Load for Bear

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Well, I finally decided on my load. I went to Cabela's and alternated between the 300 gr and 350 gr FPBs. With a box in each hand, I thought "What if a big bear was 10 feet from me, which bullet would I want in the gun?". I bought the 350 grains.

I made up some loads yesterday, going with 100 grains of Triple 7 in FFg (I figured with the heavier bullet, the slower burning powder might be advisable).

I used a Lyman D7 powder scale to measure my charges and I quickly discovered that the markings on the Traditions QuickLoaders were worthless. A 100 grain charge of Triple 7 (+/- 0.5 grains) were displayed as approximately 145 grains based upon the graduations on the plastic quick loaders.

Anyone else ever notice such a large discrepancy between the markings on the plastic tubes and the actual charge?

As a sanity check, I weighed a couple of the 350 gr bullets and they were both within 1 or 2 grains of what the Lyman scale showed.

Since I only had 4 of the plastic quickloaders, and knowing I would probably need to shoot more than 4 times to get my rifle sighted in, I came up with some makeshift charge holders.

Taking some once-fired .416 Rem Mag cases, I used a .44 mag bore brush to clean them out. I found out that I could only get about 75 grains of Triple 7 in each case, so I wound up putting 50 grain charges in each case. I used disposable, foam earplugs as stoppers. Now I have about 10 pre-measured powder charges ready to go.

I plan on going to the range either tomorrow or the day after.

Today, I will bore-sight the rifle at 25 yards (I don't have a laser bore sighter, so it is kind of a pain lining up the bore with the target, closing the breech and trying to adjust the sights to match the bore, without moving the barrel.)

I also made up some pre-soaked cleaning patches using the windex/alcolohol mixture recommended by GM54-120 and ShawnT. I am using an old KFC coleslaw container to keep the patches in. It works perfect (although snapping it closed is a little slow), as it is light and waterproof when properly closed.

I'll let everyone know how my range shooting turns out.

Again thanks to all the great advice I have received on this forum. It has saved me a considerable learning curve (not to mention time and money).

Good shooting to All,

BuffKiller
 
You are probably using too much powder. If you wish a charge of 100g equivalent black powder, i believe for 777 powder it actually weighs 77.7g. Most muzzle loader charges, even though they are expressed in weight, are actually volume measurements. Your quick loader volume measure probably isn't that far off. Recommend you reduce your powder charge to about 80g weight to begin with; then go from there
 
ronlaughlin said:
You are probably using too much powder. If you wish a charge of 100g equivalent black powder, i believe for 777 powder it actually weighs 77.7g. Most muzzle loader charges, even though they are expressed in weight, are actually volume measurements. Your quick loader volume measure probably isn't that far off. Recommend you reduce your powder charge to about 80g weight to begin with; then go from there

DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!!!!!!

Please read this post!!!!!

100gr by weight of Triple7 is a massive load. Measure it by volume or reduce the weighed load before shooting.
 
GM54-120 said:
ronlaughlin said:
You are probably using too much powder. If you wish a charge of 100g equivalent black powder, i believe for 777 powder it actually weighs 77.7g. Most muzzle loader charges, even though they are expressed in weight, are actually volume measurements. Your quick loader volume measure probably isn't that far off. Recommend you reduce your powder charge to about 80g weight to begin with; then go from there

DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!!!!!!

Please read this post!!!!!

100gr by weight of Triple7 is a massive load. Measure it by volume or reduce the weighed load before shooting.

I sure do hope you see these Warnings before you shoot that load! :shock: :shock:

Please be advised that Black powder and its subs are ALWAYS measured with a Volumetric Powder measure!!!!!!

Like this or the TC U-View

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting ... t104436180

You can weigh it on a scale but you have to use the conversion. I made my own conversion chart by throwing 10 charges with a volumetric measure and then weighing them on a scale and taking the average of the 10 charges. I did this in 10 grain increments and taped the chart inside the lid of my range box.
 
I must have a guardian angel. I went to the range this morning to shoot my ML, but it rained pretty hard last night and they were closed!

I just got on the Internet this morning after coming back from the range.

I find it rather strange that ML powder charges are expressed by volume, when all other rifle/pistol powder charges are expressed as weights. :

I will certainly have to go back and adjust my loads.

THANK YOU ALL BIG TIME FOR PROVIDING ME WITH THIS INFORMATION! (Otherwise I would have at best a sore shoulder, a busted ML, or serious injury/death to myself or some bystanders.) :prayer: :prayer:


BuffKiller
 
Using the 100 grain graduation on my Traditions Quickloader, I came up with about 73 grains of weighed powder. I upped that up to 75 grains and that is what I will be starting out with.

Last night I tried to ram one of the 350 FPBs using only the rod that came with the ML and was unable to get it started, even though I used enough force to create smal lland indentations on the base of the bullet and a slight circular indentation where the ramrod tip was pressing on the bullet.

Is this normal?

Do I just need to get a bullet starter and really slam the bullet in to get it started?

Or should I try to change the diameter of the bullets using emory cloth or rolling between two heavy pieces of flat steel?

Any suggestions?

Will the ML barrel "loosen" up after firing a few round?

Thanks.

BuffKiller
 
Ive heard the FPBs can be tight in some bores. Thats why i said IF they fit your barrel. I saw one person that did roll his between two flat surfaces to make them easier to load. You may just need a short starter and a firm smack to start them. Im not familiar with Traditions bores BUT they do sell their version of the FPBs called FullBore. https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/prod ... ain-qty-15

TRADITIONSFULLBOREBULLETS001.jpg
 
Thanks, I might have to look into those.

What I discovered by miking the entire batch of bullets was that the diameter of the bullet was 0.496 until you got to the bottom cup. The cups were all about .505.

I found by destructive testing that if I rolled the bullet between two heavy steel plates (actually the cement floor of my garage and one heavy steel plate), the cup squeezes down to about .496 and then the entire bullet slides freely up and down the bore.

So I surmise the FPB design is to have the cups slightly overbore and they have to be compressed when loading the bullet. This will ensure a good tight pressure seal and keep the bullet in place.

I figure once the cup is compressed enough to start the bullet, the bullet should go in without too much trouble.

I will go out and buy a good bullet starter and see if this theory works.

Otherwise it is back to finding another brand of bullets (perhaps the Traditions).

Thanks.

BuffKiller

PS The now useless bullet will be used as a fishing weight when I go catfishing this weekend, so it is not a total loss.

BK
 
BuffKiller said:
Thanks, I might have to look into those.

What I discovered by miking the entire batch of bullets was that the diameter of the bullet was 0.496 until you got to the bottom cup. The cups were all about .505.

I found by destructive testing that if I rolled the bullet between two heavy steel plates (actually the cement floor of my garage and one heavy steel plate), the cup squeezes down to about .496 and then the entire bullet slides freely up and down the bore.

So I surmise the FPB design is to have the cups slightly overbore and they have to be compressed when loading the bullet. This will ensure a good tight pressure seal and keep the bullet in place.

I figure once the cup is compressed enough to start the bullet, the bullet should go in without too much trouble.

I will go out and buy a good bullet starter and see if this theory works.

Otherwise it is back to finding another brand of bullets (perhaps the Traditions).

Thanks.

BuffKiller

PS The now useless bullet will be used as a fishing weight when I go catfishing this weekend, so it is not a total loss.

BK

I think you are on the right track with just getting a good stiff short starter. The Skirt portion of the bullet will be larger and you just need to get it past the crown, they should go down ok then. That Skirt is what will obturate out in the bore to seal it when the charge goes off. I even read one person state that he removed his breech plug and pushed them all the way through and out the other side so they were all pre-engraved, then just tried lining up the engraving to load them later on in the field. Not sure I would go that route myself and don't remember how it worked for him. You definitely don't want them to "Slide up and down the bore easily". That would lead to the bullet moving up the bore off the charge while carrying the rifle around, that could cause a dangerous ignition issue. I think that a good wrap on a short starter and you will be good to go. I normally carry one when hunting, just attach a length of parachute cord to it and my blaze vest so I don't loose it.

As for shooting something with a heavy "Hit" once you get it to shoot take an oak block (4x4 would do, or chunk of firewood) and shoot at the center of the block. You might get a big surprise at the damage 100 grains of powder like t7 and a 300 or 350 grain bullet will do to that block. Might add to the confidence level too. :wink:

This was about 3 1/2 -4 inch tree that I shot a 310 grain Knight lead bullet over 100 grains of Pyrodex through that was about 15 yards away between me and a buck. I was not intentionally trying to do it but.............. :roll: I did get the buck that was behind it though. :)
 
ShawnT,

Thanks for the post. No doubt a solid hit will deliver a wallop!

I actually erred when I posted the bullet itself was .496. They actually miked out about .498 (been a while since I used my old mechanical micrometer).

I am off to the store this weekend to pickup a bullet starter.

Everyone have a great Labor Day weekend!

BuffKiller
 
Got back from the range a while ago. Like everyone here stated, 100 grains of T7 pushing a 350 grn bullet packs a lot of wallop!

The Hornady 350 FPBs were easy to load after getting started. Getting them started was something else. I bought a round-type starter and most of the bullets would start after a LOT of initial effort and some would only start after me pressing about as hard as I could. I was able to get all the bullets to load and shoot.

The .416 Rem Mag cartridge cases worked great for holding the pre-measured 75 grain (by weight) charges. I used disposable ear plugs as stoppers and had two groups (50 grain and 25 grain) held together by rubber bands. When I pulled a cartridge out from the bottom, the rubber band would automatically remove the stopper. I would then poor the powder into the barrell (one .25 grain and one .50 grain). I then loaded the bullet.

It turns out that with everything snugly packed, the ramrod that came with my ML has a length, exactly the same size as the width of my first three finger of my right hand. A real "handy" (pun intended) way to ensure I packed the loads consistently for every shot!

I shot at 25 yards and was able to get fairly good groups, after I got the horizontal adjustment (rear sight) lined up properly.

The gun (a Traditions Buckstalker) was fairly light for the load I was shooting and after about a half dozen shots from the bench, I was getting a slight headache.

I only had one problem during shooting and that was when the rifle did not close properly. After I shot, the darn thing broke open. After that I was real careful to clean the breech plug and breech end of the rifle to ensure it snapped closed securely. No more problems after that. (Well there was the one time I forgot to put in the primer - the ranger officer watching me (we were the only ones on the 25 yard range) got a laugh out of that one. At least it proved I don't have a flinching problem.)

The tips I received here really came in handy as far as using pre-moistened patches and cleaning the bore and breech plug after every shot. I didn't realize MLing was so messy.

I feel pretty good about using the ML at close range during the hunt. If I get time, I want to go back to the range and shoot at 50 and 100 yards to see how I perform at that range. Otherwise, I will probably limit myself to shots no further than 50-70 yards.

Thanks again for all the good advice. Having access to information from skilled and experience MLers like the people here has made a big difference in my learning curve.

BuffKiller
 
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