Friendship

I have been reading on this site for about a year . This is the first time i have ever posted anything . I shot my first match ever at spring nationals at Friendship . I would of never been able to shoot the match without everyones help . Everyone was over the top nice and helpful ! While i was at the match i couldn't help but notice the difference in guns and bullets .I was shooting a Savage with a Brux barrel . I saw others shooting custom Knights and some stock Knights,custom TCs,custom Remingtons,ULs and i think even saw a White . I dont really understand why they dont have a stock manufacture class and a open class ? It makes me absolutely know difference in fact i just bought a new 1-20 knight Mountaineer off of Mr Miller up in Napanee IN just in case they change the rules. Although i suppose they may not need to change the rules because some of you guys shoot those stock Knights shoot unbelievable !!! The thing that really caught my attention was bullets ,bullet weights and velocity. I saw some of you guys shooting your Knights with heavy bullets and what i would consider light loads. Other Knight shooters( Mr Miller shoots Blackhorn with lighter bullets) Even saw guys paper patching bullets (which I'm doing research on now) My question to you guys is what are the advantages to shooting heavy and slow verses light and fast ? What amazes me is that both seem to work very well ! Does heavy and slow wind drift about the same as light and fast ? Again thank you very much to the guys that helped me out at Friendship also thanks in advance to any replies i may get . ( this stupid sport has created a monster already !)

For comparison::
45 with1-18 twist 12lb gun felt recoil 30 lbs with following loads.

Swiss and 530 gr bullet 1300 fps 10 mph wind
Yds. Moa ele. Moa wind velocity energy
100. 0. 2. 1181. 1642
250. 17.5. 4.8. 1053. 1306
500. 54.5. 8.7. 925. 1006
750. 99. 12. 838. 826
1000. 151. 15. 769. 696

Blackhorn and 275 gr bullet 2300 fps 10 mph
100. 0. 1 2088. 2661
250. 5. 3. 1792. 1961
500. 18. 6.6. 1375. 1154
750. 37. 10.9. 1094. 730
1000. 64. 15. 948. 550


Ballistic info only there's much more to long range bullet stability and accuracy.

Thanks Jeff you have done your research ! I get the bullet drop . Although I don't know if it matters all that much at known distances ? The wind drift is what I was really curious about . It's definitley more but not terribly more . That's very interesting . You said felt recoil was 30lbs with Swiss and a 500 grain bullet . What is felt recoil with Blackhorn and a 275 grain bullet ?

Same recoil with both loads

Dougs136Schwartz said:

................ I dont really understand why they dont have a stock manufacture class and a open class ? ............)

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There's so many shooters who have modified their rifles, even ever so slightly, it would be hard to know a rifle was completely "stock", unless the seal was opened on the box right there. Example: T/C Encore could have a completely modified frame and there would be no visible way to tell. There's everything from stock rifles, modified to some extent rifles, and completely custom built rifles as you now know. BP shooters, BH shooters, Pyro shooters and T7 pellet shooters. And a huge variance in bullet types and weights. Its what makes the in-line match go great!
For this spring's match the shooters, regardless of their rifle or any modifications, were put into one of three classes, SHARPSHOOTER, EXPERT, MASTER. Which class you shot in depended on any previous score. Those new or with no previous score were placed in Sharpshooter class. Their score at the match determines if they'll stay in that class or move up in class.
IMO this was a great change over previous matches, where rifle weight determined class.

Yes, this sport can be FUN !! Its driven many of us mad.......... :wink:

And yes, the shooters are ALL great people, always willing to help at Friendship. None of the bickering on internet sites.

I believe classing shooters is perfect!

Like I previously said it makes me absolutely no difference and what Endorse says makes complete sense . Im sure there are very few completely stock guns if any . That's what makes this game so cool , I love the fact that there are so many different guns, bullets and powder combinations that all work and work well ! Tell me this why does the ULTIMATE guys shoot 777 magnum pellets instead of loose powder ? I havemailed been told loose powder has a better ES than pellets?

Dougs136Schwartz said:

....................Tell me this why does the ULTIMATE guys shoot 777 magnum pellets instead of loose powder ?

Click to expand...

Not every Ultimate shooter shoots T7 but, the rifle ignition was actually designed to shoot pellets. I shot 2-pellets at 50 & 100yds, then changed to 3 pellets for 200m and 300m shooting. Ultimate Firearms Inc. rifles can shoot very accurately using pellets.

The match tests more than ANY rifle, propellant or bullet, mostly the shooter. Rifles can be tested using a full rest such as a Sled and shoot extremely well, even pre-packaged rifles, and at long range. However, take that rear rest away and now it has all to do with the shooter. Take any of the better shooters and hand them a "boxed rifle" and I guarantee you, they'll wring accuracy at range from it.

Dougs136Schwartz said:

1- I dont really understand why they dont have a stock manufacture class and a open class ?
2- The thing that really caught my attention was bullets ,bullet weights and velocity. I saw some of you guys shooting your Knights with heavy bullets and what i would consider light loads.
3- Even saw guys paper patching bullets (which I'm doing research on now) My question to you guys is what are the advantages to shooting heavy and slow verses light and fast ?
4- What amazes me is that both seem to work very well !
5- ( this stupid sport has created a monster already !)

Click to expand...

Doug136... A lot to comprehend, so I had to sort your questions.
1- 100% agree and have been suggesting so since NMLRA in-line day 1. Even suggested a complete other match for open class. IMO, organizations growth is with the average ML who they are trying to encourage to participate and I don't think the big manufactures will get involved unless their is such separation. And, $ does come into play.
2- You need to read up on Whitworth's experiments from the early 1850's. Some sections of The Gun and its Development by WW Greener might be a start.
3- Paper patch, there are many ways to patch - again 1850's. If you haven't noticed, copper jackets over lead cores are getting thinner... Speed is only number and not a function of accuracy. To me, I wouldn't want to get hit with anything moving at the speed of sound (~ 1111fps). Read the post in this MML - LR section on trajectory at 1000yds... ( I can't recall the title of the post)
4- I agree (If you are who I think, we spoke about this in May)
5-Nothing stupid about it - the history of Long Range shooting was born with ML's (Whitworth). Also, one of the most difficult shooting sports...

Doug:
Read the post: 1000yd shooting - fact or fiction

I will find that post and read it . This sport has hooked me big time already . I'm gonna set up a couple guns completely different . Fast and light , slow and heavy . I love to experiment . So much to learn and everyone I have met so far has been very helpful !

Here's the NMLRA site, which lists the June scores for ALL events.

At the very bottom of the page, it indicates new in-line records or ties.

http://nmlra.org/wp-content/uploads/201 ... edited.pdf

What all classes can you shoot with a inline at Friendship ?

Aggregate IH
Match340,341,342,343,344

Long range
Match310

Creedmoore
Match321

Thanks Jeff I have trouble finding and understanding all the classes . Creedmore is 500 yards 15 shots in 45 min off of sticks. Integrated class is 50 ,100,200yards, 200 meters and 300 meters ? Correct ? What is the long range class ?

Off sticks 3 pigs , 3 chicken,3 Turkey,3rams.
Can be shot in 2 consecutive relays or in one relay