20:1 Alloy?

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Idaholewis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2017
Messages
7,287
Reaction score
10,277
What alloy are you Long Range guy’s using? From extensive reading i found that most BPCR Long Range Shooters are using this 20:1 Stuff. The Long Range BACO bullets are a Cupped base swaged bullet made from pure Virgin lead wire, Have you guy’s noticed a difference in accuracy from these different alloys? Pure Virgin Lead, to 20:1 is substantially different, seems to me they would shoot different?
 
It has been many years since I parted with my Sharp's 45-70, but I went with 20-1 after reading about all of Paul Matthews books I could get my hand on... when cast and loaded properly the rifle could shoot a whole lot better than I... I did try some harder bullets that a friend supplied early on, and they did not shoot near as well as the softer 20:1. I did try some out of a softer mix, not pure, but softer than 20:1 and shot well enough that I stopped buying 20:1 premixed and just used soft with just a touchof wheel weight thrown in... not a great answer to your question, but that is what I can remember...

themoose
 
post got me to thinkin(I know that it is dangerous, but in my case, not habit forming)... I think why the 20:1 is highly touted is that it helps fill out the large bullets when a little tin is present.
 
themoose said:
post got me to thinkin(I know that it is dangerous, but in my case, not habit forming)... I think why the 20:1 is highly touted is that it helps fill out the large bullets when a little tin is present.


I have also read that the 20:1 stuff is less likely to slump, nose slump they call it.
 
Cartridge and ML are completely different animals when engaging the rifling.
Deep rifled ML shooting round projectiles in a Whitworth, Alex Henry, Ratchet, etc.. require soft lead. Whitworth's hex bullets (mechanically fitting) were harder - no/little upsetting needed. Later rifles such as Gibbs-Metford, Rigby, etc.. had shallow rifling that required little upsetting, therefore they could also shoot harder bullets..
I think nose slump is a myth/excuse (unless it's a really pointed bullet, I don't buy it) I ask - how would one know/prove?
 
52Bore said:
Cartridge and ML are completely different animals when engaging the rifling.
Deep rifled ML shooting round projectiles in a Whitworth, Alex Henry, Ratchet, etc.. require soft lead. Whitworth's hex bullets (mechanically fitting) were harder - no/little upsetting needed. Later rifles such as Gibbs-Metford, Rigby, etc.. had shallow rifling that required little upsetting, therefore they could also shoot harder bullets..
I think nose slump is a myth/excuse (unless it's a really pointed bullet, I don't buy it) I ask - how would one know/prove?

52bore, I have a read a BUNCH of conflicting info on Nose Slump, I also wonder about it??? There is a guy on CB, and BPCR, Shiloh forums, if you get on those you probably know who i am talking about so I’ll not toss names. The guy seems to know what he’s talking about? I have never spoke to him in any way, But have read his Nose Slump claims? I’ve also seen him in some heated debate over it. He has pictures and all showing very obvious bent bullet noses
 
Won Oak Ridge 1000 yd. match over all 2 times using 20-1 PP from Higgenbottem mould. Only thing I can say about nose slump is what Slug Gun guys use and that is two piece bullet. I dont think nose actually slumps over. I think bullet gets shorter and changes shape filling out lands and grooves. This is just my opinion and have no actual proof.
I have saw a round PP bullet used in Whitwort , become Hex shaped like the bore and you could even see the diagonal seam where Paper ends met.
 
45cal said:
Won Oak Ridge 1000 yd. match over all 2 times using 20-1 PP from Higgenbottem mould. Only thing I can say about nose slump is what Slug Gun guys use and that is two piece bullet. I dont think nose actually slumps over. I think bullet gets shorter and changes shape filling out lands and grooves. This is just my opinion and have no actual proof.
I have saw a round PP bullet used in Whitwort , become Hex shaped like the bore and you could even see the diagonal seam where Paper ends met.

Thank you 45cal, I have a full 20 lb lead pot full of Certified 20:1 i got over at BACO when I bought the Elliptical mold, i really need to get out and run this new mold and make up a bunch of good bullets, i find with a new mold it takes a few casting sessions before it really starts throwing good. How much Swiss 2F you think I’ll need to get 1300 FPS? I’m thinking 90 Weight Grains?
 
90-94 should be around that. Wanted to mention I don't use a wad. Some do and some don't. It is matter of what the rifle Likes. Might try both ways. Just Suggestion
 
45cal said:
I have saw a round PP bullet used in Whitwort , become Hex shaped like the bore and you could even see the diagonal seam where Paper ends met.
This?
Harold W., Whitworth recovered at 1000 at Oak Ridge, I believe it glanced off the berm thru the target and found in the hillside, nose is deformed as well as the backside, but not much. I still have the bullet, pure lead.
Note the reduced OAL with the deep Whitworth rifling.
 

Attachments

  • Whitworth bullet upset.jpg
    Whitworth bullet upset.jpg
    132.1 KB · Views: 168
52Bore said:
45cal said:
I have saw a round PP bullet used in Whitwort , become Hex shaped like the bore and you could even see the diagonal seam where Paper ends met.
This?
Harold W., Whitworth recovered at 1000 at Oak Ridge, I believe it glanced off the berm thru the target and found in the hillside, nose is deformed as well as the backside, but not much. I still have the bullet, pure lead.
Note the reduced OAL with the deep Whitworth rifling.
Whitworth bullet upset.jpg

Man! That bullet REALLY shortened up, that is a neat picture! That bullet looks like these Swaged .444 530 BACO bullets i have.
 
45cal said:
90-94 should be around that. Wanted to mention I don't use a wad. Some do and some don't. It is matter of what the rifle Likes. Might try both ways. Just Suggestion


Thank you 45cal! I will definitely try both ways. I really wanna get out and shoot this darn rifle! The snow here just isn’t gonna allow any distance, The only place i know anywhere around here reasonably close by is a Sand pit right off a main dirt rd, the plow trucks alway make a good wide turn out in the front end of it, 75-80 yards is the Max range i can get there. I should be able to get somewhat of an idea how the rifle is gonna shoot these New BACO Elliptical bullets?
 
This morning was a BUST, i shot the 1:18 twist worse than i ever have? 90 Weight Grains of Swiss 2F powder, 530 Grain BACO Elliptical bullet, i used a .060 Vege fibre Wad, i wish i had brought enough stuff to try a Group without a Wad like 45cal mentioned above, i have a feeling this rifle isn’t gonna like this 20:1 Alloy? I need to shoot a couple more times and change things around before i give up on this Alloy. Since the rifle shoots high i hung 2 targets and shot at the bottom spot, my cold clean bore shot was only 5” above the bull, i ran up and marked it. Then proceeded to shoot the last 4 as a Group, i had 3 in about a 6” group and roughly 18” high, and 1 complete oddball down at the spot i was aiming at, but to the left about 6” it was definitely an odd deal? I was shooting over the hood of my truck, Not the most comfortable shooting platform, but my shots felt good and solid. I need to do some thinking? This definitely didn’t work worth a hoot!
 
Back
Top