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Super 91 with pitted barrel

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nocomike
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Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby nocomike » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:03 am

I have a S91, blued with what I would consider to be minor pitting. (I have never seen a barrrel with BAD pitting, firsthand, so my assessment may be different than yours) I am not getting the kind of accuracy I would hope for, no where near what my M97 does and I was curious if any of you men had any experience re-barreling a S91. What would the cost be, ball-park, for a reasonably accurate tube equal to the original?
I may be a bit premature putting this question out as I am not done playing with different bullet diameters and powder charges. Thus far i have shot 460 No Excuses sized at .503 and I have some .504's from Bull Shop that I have not yet tried. Maybe the .504's will do the trick but in the meantime the "back of the mind" nagging thought of "What do I do if I bought a gun that has a bad barrel??" is constant... Just thinking ahead about a possible Plan B.

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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby Fmfdred56 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:19 am

Could be that nagging in the back of your mind is the accuracy problem, or could be that you havent found the combo. I shoot 75grains 777fffg and a 495 no excuses with a 540 felt wad between them.

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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby toytruck » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:51 am

Only one of my .504 M97's has very light pitting at the muzzle from previous owner, accuracy is still very much there, so no issue. My guns will never see anymore pyrodex either for that very reason. The rest of my Whites are clean/shiney bores so can't help with your question. Good luck in finding a accurate bullet! If not a conical, try a saboted bullet might be the answer.
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nocomike
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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby nocomike » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:11 pm

sabots are no use, unfortunately, as i hunt in Colorado. I did see this topic already mentioned in another thread and after reading the responses I am a bit puzzled that as highly sought-after as White rifles are, and the frequency of otherwise fine rifles with damaged barrels, that there isn't a well known remedy for re-barreling. I would think the actions are worth saving and see other threads with custom barrels being mated to all manner of actions.

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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby dbowling » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:24 pm

you might p.m. Bestill and see what he thinks. Unless the pitting is severe it should have little effect on accuracy.. I've had a couple Knights that were so badly pitted the inside of barrel looked like a gravel road and they would still shoot 1 in. groups at 75 yds..
I gave one to step daughter and another to a guy I work with, step daughter has killed 3 deer with hers. Ive got one White that has light pitting in barrel and its very accurate with 460 gr conicals, guessing you need to play with loads to find out what it likes.
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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby nocomike » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:52 pm

dbowling wrote:you might p.m. Bestill and see what he thinks. Unless the pitting is severe it should have little effect on accuracy.. I've had a couple Knights that were so badly pitted the inside of barrel looked like a gravel road and they would still shoot 1 in. groups at 75 yds..
I gave one to step daughter and another to a guy I work with, step daughter has killed 3 deer with hers. Ive got one White that has light pitting in barrel and its very accurate with 460 gr conicals, guessing you need to play with loads to find out what it likes.


I am glad to hear this; perhaps I am getting ahead of myself. My first range session with a M97 was impressive to say the least and the S91 suffered by comparison. To clarify, I shot the S91 with 80g/volume Triple 7 FF and veggie wad with No Excuses 460g and got 2.5 inch groups at 50 yards. Next time out to the range I shoot the exact same load except using a Bull Shop sized to .504 with my M97 and finish the day with a 3 shot group at 100 yards of 1.1 inch. The M97 bore is perfect and the S91 is showing something that I cant scrub out. I will state, that i don't know without doubt what pitting looks like in a barrel as I wouldn't have ever put away a rifle without cleaning it( I would have lost a yard of hide off my back-side, compliments of my father, if I would have committed such a sin). I will tinker with loads before I make the jump to re-barreling, assuming it is even financially feasible.

Coincidentally, I just received my Mountaineer barrel and action back from Bestill for a breech plug and bounced the question off of him about the S91/re-barreling issue and while he didn't have any firm answers he did say he would be willing to look into the matter for me. Jeff/Bestill was such a pleasure to talk with and do business with I may have to be careful I don't manufacture a reason to put steel in his shop for more work just because he is such a pleasant gentleman to work with. :D

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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby sbuff » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:26 pm

Did you use any JB bore paste by chance ?
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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby 1874sharpsshooter » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:54 pm

You could try fire lapping the bore. 220,400,800 and 1200 is the standard grit that I prefer . You can get them as a kit then
Impregnate lead conicals with it and get to shooting. It will be fun and may be effective in polishing that barrel up and regaining accuracy.
5 or 6 rounds of each grit and check the progress
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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby nocomike » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:45 am

sbuff wrote:Did you use any JB bore paste by chance ?

I did try some JB and it did seem to improve what I can see with my eye. First time I ever used that product and apparently it will turn the patches black even when the barrel is clean (?) or so I read on various posts elsewhere regarding its effectiveness. I am planning on visiting my gun smith soon to have the situation formally diagnosed using a bore scope. The thing about a visual inspection is that it appears to me that there is something "on" the wall of the barrel and not a "hole" or "dimple" or "pit" like you might see if metal had corroded and dissolved. I have cleaned with soap and water then Hoppes9 and numerous bronze brush passes and then the JB thinking that what I was seeing may be lead. I have never dealt with lead buildup in a rifle bore but am familiar with copper. I heard that Kroil is very effective for pulling lead out of barrels and may try getting some before I can make it by the GS shop.

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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby nocomike » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:48 am

1874sharpsshooter wrote:You could try fire lapping the bore. 220,400,800 and 1200 is the standard grit that I prefer . You can get them as a kit then
Impregnate lead conicals with it and get to shooting. It will be fun and may be effective in polishing that barrel up and regaining accuracy.
5 or 6 rounds of each grit and check the progress

Thanks for the suggestion and I will look into that. I still can't believe no one on this site has ever rebarreled a White!? Do you have any idea why that would be so?

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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby 1874sharpsshooter » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:12 am

nocomike wrote:
1874sharpsshooter wrote:You could try fire lapping the bore. 220,400,800 and 1200 is the standard grit that I prefer . You can get them as a kit then
Impregnate lead conicals with it and get to shooting. It will be fun and may be effective in polishing that barrel up and regaining accuracy.
5 or 6 rounds of each grit and check the progress

Thanks for the suggestion and I will look into that. I still can't believe no one on this site has ever rebarreled a White!? Do you have any idea why that would be so?

Probably because of cost and not that many White enthusiasts out there , plus only a handful of states require full bore conicals . Everyone else shoots sabots . Whites excell with big lead as we all know. You could probably get it rebarreled but I bet it would cost about $600, especially if using a Match grade barrel like the Criterion’s . You could always ask Doc .
“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten” – Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby sbuff » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:18 am

How many strokes of JB did you try, see what 50-100 passes gets you. It might just be a dirty barrel and not pitting .
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edmehlig
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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby edmehlig » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:12 am

Doc White now is using Howard Kelley to make his bbls. Doc said he has it down pat in replicating White bbls with the shallow groves.

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nocomike
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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby nocomike » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:16 am

sbuff wrote:How many strokes of JB did you try, see what 50-100 passes gets you. It might just be a dirty barrel and not pitting .

I will try that as well. Probably have 40-50 strokes so far...

nocomike
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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby nocomike » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:17 am

edmehlig wrote:Doc White now is using Howard Kelley to make his bbls. Doc said he has it down pat in replicating White bbls with the shallow groves.

Howard Kelley
Weberton Rifleworks
1058 North West St.
Hillsboro OH. 45133
937-364-2086

Thanks for passing this info along. I will see if I can get a quote and if so will post it.

nocomike
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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby nocomike » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:19 am

1874sharpsshooter wrote:
nocomike wrote:
1874sharpsshooter wrote:You could try fire lapping the bore. 220,400,800 and 1200 is the standard grit that I prefer . You can get them as a kit then
Impregnate lead conicals with it and get to shooting. It will be fun and may be effective in polishing that barrel up and regaining accuracy.
5 or 6 rounds of each grit and check the progress

Thanks for the suggestion and I will look into that. I still can't believe no one on this site has ever rebarreled a White!? Do you have any idea why that would be so?

Probably because of cost and not that many White enthusiasts out there , plus only a handful of states require full bore conicals . Everyone else shoots sabots . Whites excell with big lead as we all know. You could probably get it rebarreled but I bet it would cost about $600, especially if using a Match grade barrel like the Criterion’s . You could always ask Doc .

I am waiting for Doc to respond to an email I sent. I guess he may be filling tags.

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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby Dave C » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:51 pm

Sometimes, it takes Doc a while to respond in my experience and sometimes he never responds at all. :lol: Keep trying if you haven't heard back from him in a week and make sure you're using the right e-mail address as one of his e-mails doesn't work anymore.

nocomike
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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby nocomike » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:59 pm

Dave C wrote:Sometimes, it takes Doc a while to respond in my experience and sometimes he never responds at all. :lol: Keep trying if you haven't heard back from him in a week and make sure you're using the right e-mail address as one of his e-mails doesn't work anymore.

I have found that to be the case in prior exchanges, myself.

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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby nocomike » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:15 pm

I just spoke to a guy at Weberton Rifleworks, briefly. I asked him if he could help with rebarreling a White Super 91 and he stated that he could. He said he doesn't do stainless but that he would mount a blued barrel to my action for "A couple hundred bucks". And he could do it in any length and rifling pitch and have it back to me in a month. He said he has been doing work for Doc and he would be happy to help save my gun. I NOW HAVE PLAN B!!!!
Thanks for the info Ed!

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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby dbowling » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:27 pm

why not see if you can put a bright light at back of breech and take a pic of the bore and post it, we might be able to tell you if its really bad or minor..
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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby nocomike » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:01 pm

dbowling wrote:why not see if you can put a bright light at back of breech and take a pic of the bore and post it, we might be able to tell you if its really bad or minor..

I will get some pics using the bore scope when I get to my gun smith's shop and do just that.

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Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

Postby edmehlig » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:29 pm

If the receiver to your Super 91 is stainless and the bbl is going to be blue, you could have the whole rifle done in Black Ice, Duracoat or whatever coating you like.

Glad to hear it’s going to work out for you and you have a plan.
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