The “true” squirrel guns … .357 were are they?

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The “true” squirrel guns … .357 were are they? The ones used in competition?


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I know of two and they won't sell. The Crane brothers have them. They were last Team to win Manufactures Match with them at Friendship. They were barreled by Colerain and were .38 cal. and they had their own bullet Moulds made for them. The Moulds were made by Mountain Moulds. Good to 200 yds. but after that a little light
 
I could have had 2 a while back, but of course they came at a time play money was tight.(one of my big regrets) When I looked again, they were gone. One was barreled .338, and one was .375 (.33 & .366)
 
Funny how $$ is always missing when opportunity knocks isn’t it?


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In his book Doc said his .330 was experimental but shows a picture of a 300 lb. Sika deer he shot with a 240 gn. Bullet and 60 gn. Of Pyrodex. He describes .350 and .367 as being experimental as well. He later armed his team shooters with the .367 to win the Manufacturer Match.
 
The fellows that won Manufactures match were using 38 cal. I have shot against their rifles before. They still have them and are from Bedford , Indiana
 
That must be a real privilege to shoot with such competitive shooters. I have shot several times with Anson Morgan and his son Don who both shot for White but not the year they won the Manufacturers shoot. Doc also made sure Don had a .451 White when he pulled a Michgan Elk tag.

All I know about the muzzleloader they shot at the 2006 Match is from the White Muzzleloading Website. At the top of the page click on "All About Doc" which will give you more options then click on "Docs Past Adventures" then scroll down to the year 2006. Doc gives credit to the team including the 2 brothers you mentioned. Then he talks about the "Varminter" in .367 caliber with a 1-15" twist that shot .367 Power Punch Slip Fit 305 gn. bullets using 35-55 grains of powder depending on range.
 
45cal said:
I know of two and they won't sell. The Crane brothers have them. They were last Team to win Manufactures Match with them at Friendship. They were barreled by Colerain and were .38 cal. and they had their own bullet Moulds made for them. The Moulds were made by Mountain Moulds. Good to 200 yds. but after that a little light
They didn't do well past 100 in the 1st NMLRA In-line Hunter match in 2013.
 
Saxtonyoung,

You are correct, the "Varminter" rifles used by the White Shooting Team to win the 2006 Manufactures Match were .367 caliber. They had the customary .0035" deep rifling that White is known for. So in center fire world, these would have been .374-.375ish caliber, not .38 like someone is trying to get you to believe. You had it right all along.

What some of the experts that are trying to correct you still don't realize is, muzzleloader calibers are measured off the land diameter, while center fire calibers are measured on the groove diameter. I told them this a couple years back, but they must keep forgetting?




"The ‘Varminter’ is in .367 caliber with 1-15 twist, throwing a tight multi-channelured lubricated almost slip-fit bullet weighing 305 grains. Barrel is 28 inches long, standard 1.10′ at the breech tapering to quarter sized at the muzzle, which is turned to fit the straight-line starter pictured below."






"The nose of the straight-line starter is turned to fit the bullet. The barrel has a slight choke, which makes it a mite difficult to load with ramrod alone. Since shooting this rifle at varmints and target is meant to be deliberate, I don’t mind the starter. Once the bullet is past the muzzle, it slides easily down to the powder."

"The Varminter rifle is fitted with a Morgan adjustable recoil pad. It will adjust up or down to fit the shooter’s face and shoulder geometry. The trigger is a Bold and pull weight is adjusted to 2 lbs which means the safety won’t work- use the secondary pullcock safety. The rifle is shot from a freshly cleaned and brushed barrel, powder is loaded down a long tube so it won’t pick up any residual moisture from the barrel walls and also so it stacks in the barrel pretty much the same for each shot. A bullet is then placed in the starter, then a poly wad is placed under the bullet in the starter, the starter is up-ended on the fitted muzzle and the bullet and wad are smacked down with the palm. The ramrod is then used to gently push the bullet down on the powder, being careful to use the same pressure for each loading. Groups of less than 1 MOA are average from a double rest."


"WHITE RIFLES TEAM WINS THE 2006 MANUFACTURER’S MATCH"





"That’s me, Doc White, on the left, then Rusty Cottrell, Lowell Crane, Merle Crane, David Jones and Steven Dick. The four with the rifles were the shooters, I got to cheer, while Steve managed the spotting scope and was handy in case we needed him as an alternate shooter. David Jones was the #1 individual shooter, Rusty was #2. The Crane brothers were # 6 & 7. Obviously, all are fine shots. The White team established a new record for the match, shooting 1132- 14X, eclipsing the old record of 1101-8X set in 2005 by the Knight team. David Jones also shot a new individual record for the match, shooting a 291-3X. He missed 9 points out of 300. WOW! It is hard for me to express how proud I am of this team of shooters. Their dedication to the task was exemplary. No one will ever know how many hours of practice it took to do this, let alone the mind control and discipline. They have my hearty thanks, little reward for their mighty accomplishment. The match was discontinued after White cleaned everyone’s clock. I guess we get to keep the trophy."


Here's is the whole story. And yes to the OP, Doc White also had some .330 cal and .350 cal "Squirrel" rifles over the years as well. The .451 caliber rifles were affectionately called the "Squirrel Rifles" by the guys that preferred the .504 caliber and .540 caliber rifles. This was all in fun. Doc does have a few typos in there as to rifling depth, he incorrectly lists it as .035" instead of the correct .0035". Enjoy!

http://whitemuzzleloading.com/designing-for-accuracy/
 

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Busta,

Thanks for the verification.

I have a hard copy of Doc Whites book so I knew he experimented with the smaller calibers (.330, .350 and .367) but am unsure if any hit the market. Sounds like the winning team shooters may have been able to keep the ones used in match.
 
The .451 caliber rifles were affectionately called the "Squirrel Rifles" by the guys that preferred the .504 caliber and .540 caliber rifles. This was all in fun.

FUN, I don’t think it’s FUNNY!! :twisted: :D :D
 
edmehlig said:
The .451 caliber rifles were affectionately called the "Squirrel Rifles" by the guys that preferred the .504 caliber and .540 caliber rifles. This was all in fun.

FUN, I don’t think it’s FUNNY!! :twisted: :D :D


Maybe the guy’s you are referring to are distant relatives of Elmer Keith? :lol:
 
Lewis, you may be on to something. I've read a lot of what Elmer wrote and as far as he was concerned there was no such thing as "too big" or "too magnum".
 
Saxtonyoung said:
I've read a lot of what Elmer wrote and as far as he was concerned there was no such thing as "too big" or "too magnum".

:lol: Nope, it was BIG or go home with that Ole boy!
 
edmehlig said:
The .451 caliber rifles were affectionately called the "Squirrel Rifles" by the guys that preferred the .504 caliber and .540 caliber rifles. This was all in fun.

FUN, I don’t think it’s FUNNY!! :twisted: :D :D

Several thought it was at the time!

IIRC, I think some referred to the .410 as the chipmonk rifle.

I've still got a .504, .451, and a 12ga.
 
Saxtonyoung said:
Busta,

Thanks for the verification.

I have a hard copy of Doc Whites book so I knew he experimented with the smaller calibers (.330, .350 and .367) but am unsure if any hit the market. Sounds like the winning team shooters may have been able to keep the ones used in match.

You're welcome, and it's important to get history correct. There is always someone trying to change it for one reason or another. Lack of knowledge of the facts, but insists you are wrong. Don't accept it, when you know better!

I've been over to Ansons shop a couple times several years back. Nicely located for this old farm boy! I'm pretty sure I remember reading where Doc did give all the shooters the rifles, but don't quote me on that. I don't have time to research it right now.
 
thanks for info. Do you know who made the Molds for the rifles? Next time I see one of the Cranr Brothers I'll try get some facts from them. The Match on final day used to be something to watch. This is when they shot diatance at swingers. The Crane Brothers still have their Rifles. They also shot for Pedersoli once
 
I was there to watch that incredible match on '06.....was able to chat with Doc for a few minutes also. I miss the old DWB site, as we had a lot of fun over there! Even saw the birth of the "squirrel rifle"..... :D :partyman:
 

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